18-09-2001 23:17									#61
	Mongol NOW Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

OK I started 'Rabid Rodent', but it seems that I'm playing much faster than the others. It would be no fun to play 1000 years ahead of them.

Therefore I stop that for a while ...
... and start the 'Mongol' scenario NOW
...being the leader of the Mongols

(just one question to you, arii, about 'Discover': where did you build those numerous fat cities, starting in Amsterdam?)

	18-09-2001 23:24									#62
	Mongol NOW Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

The guidebook states that playing 'les Francs' is stimulating.
Therefore I choose 'les Francs'

	19-09-2001 14:19									#63
	Increase Your PM Length

The locations are (en francais) estonie, ecosse, SE moscou, caucasse, ile pret du canada, benin (bribed).
I will try the scenario mongol as the french also. How about choosing 25-40 cities as objective from all the civs so as to keep the scenario short?

	19-09-2001 22:18									#64
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by arii The locations are (en francais) estonie, ecosse, SE moscou, caucasse, ile pret du canada, benin (bribed). I will try the scenario mongol as the french also. How about choosing 25-40 cities as objective from all the civs so as to keep the scenario short?

Thank you for those French names.
Hope you don't mind if I give the correct spelling when needed, namely: caucase + île près du canada.
BTW 'les francs' doesn't mean 'the French'. It means 'the Franks'. Those were among the numerous invaders coming from the east. They stayed and gave their name to the country.

About objectives:
The 'Mongol' scenario has objectives. No need to choose them. The author has done it for us (and I suppose it won't be easy to conquer them all in time if some of them are hidden in the South East, because the Franks start in the North West and the map is big (horizontal = 200 IIRC)

	20-09-2001 03:29									#65
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Franca and japonese seem to be the 2 challenging civs. Either one is fine with me.

	19-11-2001 05:12									#66
	Hall of Fame Got spare money?

Here is the current Hall of Fame for scenarios: Conflicts in Civilization

Alexandre (Macedonians): sept 331 - DrFell
Alien (Europeans): 2044 - La Fayette (*)
Apocalypse (Serene Lights): bug (couldn't finish)
Civil War (Kentucky): 39 objectives - La Fayette (*)
Discover (Dutch) : 1647 - arii
Independence (Americans): august 1780 - La Fayette (*)
Independence (French): July 1782 - La Fayette (*)
Jihad (Arabs): 731 - La Fayette
Mongol (Franks): 1314 - La Fayette
Napoleon (French): March 1804 - La Fayette
ww1 (French): sept 1919 - La Fayette

All these results are: deity level, all objectives conquered or destroyed - except (*)

(*)
Alien = aliens beaten; other civs untouched
Civil War = 39 (out of 52) objectives conquered at the time limit (may 1868)
Discover = 2/3 cities conquered
Independence (Americans) = all objectives conquered, except Halifax and Port-au-Prince (special defence)
Independence (French) = English beaten, Americans untouched (of course)

	19-11-2001 05:22									#67
	next game: crusades Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

The Hall of Fame now covers 10 out of 12 scenarios: conflicts in civilization.
There remains: Crusades and ww79.
I start playing 'Crusades' tomorrow.
Have chosen to be English (why not?...once in a while)

	11-12-2001 08:12									#68
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As posted in the Mongol thread, I have completed the Mongol CiC scenario by total conquest in 1302. Finally, a top score! Of those I played, I seemed to always finish a few turns behind the leaders.

	12-12-2001 04:27									#69
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Marquis de Sodaq I have completed the Mongol CiC scenario by total conquest in 1302. Finally, a top score!

Well done, Marquis.
Now you are on the list.
(BTW you should play your turn in the 'crusades' succession game, since kcbob didn't react to my PM and Raz also remained silent)

(La Fayette, friendly impressed by this high speed visit to Asia)

	12-12-2001 05:48									#70
	Crusades - CiC Support Apolyton

Hm, I suppose I should finally post before La Fayette beats me to it

Crusade scenario, as English, deity - finished in (ugh) 1243 (all cities conquered). I did go outside the spirit of the rules a bit by changing to Fundamentalism when the opportunity arose, tho

STYOM

	27-12-2001 22:37									#71
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Alien: deity level. European, with caravan rehoming, 2013.

Strategy:
1998: select corporation as first tech to research (afterwards pick the path towards the TIGUR tech). talk to the other two human civs to dissolve alliances. set tax 90, luxury 10, hire one scientist. make London celebrating. build a new city at two spaces south to London, sell all hydro plants, rush build the following: airport in London, transports in Stockholm, Madrid and the new city, Darwin's voyage in Kiev (use money to buy the wonder), caravans in other cities.
1999: Kiev built Darwins, get corporation and one other tech (communism?). all caravans upgraded to freights. select commodities demanded by Pan American cities. sell all factories, set tax 80, luxury 20. rush build Colossus in London, transport in Madrid, freights in other cities (buy barracks, switch to engineer then to freight or transport). Move the transport of Madrid west.
2000: rehome all freights to London then ship them to America. Count number of beakers so that you don't waste freights. Sell Universities. rush build transport in Madrid, and rush buy Magellen's expedition in one of your cities. rush build freights in other cities.
2001: sell libraries. rush freights in all cities (3 transports in Madrid plus ME is sufficient for sending freights to America). When a city runs out of commodity, build an engineer and use it to build a new city. Or, rush build sewing system, supermarket, or other wonders (I built all useful wonders, the AIs never got a chance to beat me to anything). Build enough engineers and work your way towards east. It takes a long time to build RRs so every two squares you build a new city to save time.
2002: sell courthouse in London, and SAM in another city.
2003: sell SAM in London.
2007: TIGUR tech in research. Rush build barracks.
2008: Rush build TIGURs in all cities. Revolution.
2009: Change to Fundi (I have SOL). wipe out the Pan Americans. Keep on building TIGURS.
2010: Occupy Surf city of the Alien, and Occupy all Pacific cities except the two in Australia. Rush build palaces in all coastal cities of Pacific (e.g., Singapore, Shanghai, etc. ), then switch to transports. Keep on building TIGURS and use them to search hidden alien cities (use home city screen to check the nearest city).
2011: wipe out Pacific.

An Alien city was in the island east of Africa (Madacasga?) and it took me 3 turns to send troops there from Roma. If I knew the map I could finish it by 2011.

Last edited by Xin Yu on 28-12-2001 at 00:31

	05-01-2002 10:07									#72
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Apocalypse: Deity level, New Beetles, 53AD. Sell everything and only build several galleys, the rest -- diplos! Use a bribed armor to get the capitals then bribe every city. Make peace with the Saurian first. Bribe Saurian cities with double price and bribe all of its bombers. Then it is ok to declare war (AD45 Saurian sneak attacked me so I did not break the peace treaty).

	06-01-2002 04:36									#73
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Civil War as Kentuckian:

First turn: move the militia of Louiseville north via road to left of Cincinati and meet the Union. Union will declare war. Now move the militia west to occupy Indianapolis and continue moving north. Move another militia from Lexington north as well via road and river.
Second turn: move the Lexington militia to occupy Columbus (fortify it there), move the Louiseville militia to occupy chicago and keep on moving west. Reject any ceasefire offer from the Union. Sell city improvements in all cities to rush buy two warships (you know which cities) and two raiders (one in indianapolis, another in the south city next to Nashville).
Third turn, move the Lexington militia to occupy Cleveland, move the Louiseville militia to occupy the two cities west of chicago, move the raider of indianapolis to occupy two cities north and southwest of indianapolis. Use the warships to blow up union gunboats. now talk to the union (remember spend some money so you only need to pay a tech of dixie land to get the deal) and get a ceasefire. move the raider southeast (reject peace offer first and the ceasefire will expire) to occupy two rebel cities, then talk to the rebels again to get a new ceasefire deal. Or, you can continue to rush build raiders and keep on fighting the Rebels. All Rebel cities are currently building defending units so there will only be a couple of militias moving towards you. You can easily kill them with raiders and occupy Nashville and Atlanta.

I haven't played beyond that, but with more than a dozen cities at turn 3 the Kentuckians are in a very good shape. There are three ways to proceed afterwards. One is to build a lot of traders and get a tech from trade bonus so that you can build a better infantry unit; another is to use engineers to build fortresses next to enemy cities and move siege artilleries (use infantries to protect them) there to blow up the defense. The third way is to use raiders. Your first raider will lose to the defending unit but your second will win.

Since your cities are big it may be suitable to stay in Democracy. Happiness should not be a big problem if you build instant cities and fortresses and park your troops in the fortresses.

Last edited by Xin Yu on 07-01-2002 at 05:17

	09-01-2002 02:56									#74
	Re: Crusades - CiC Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Six Thousand Year Old Man Hm, I suppose I should finally post before La Fayette beats me to it STYOM

You are right. Posting now is useful. Not because of me (I confess I forgot my crusade when solo sent me civ3 from the US a month ago), but because of Xin Yu himself, who has decided to play some CiC scenarios and started to explode previous records.
Anyway I shall finish my own crusade and let you know.

	09-01-2002 08:48									#75
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

It does look like a lot of the records are going to fall, if Xin keeps going, and get put way, waaaaay beyond my reach.

I made some dumb moves in the CiC Crusade... so it shouldn't be hard for you to knock that one off. Right now, I'm working on 'East Wind, Rain' (WWII Pacific scenario, I think from the CiC 'Best of Net' folder), as the Dutch. It's a tough one... years have gone by, I've lost cities, and am still 'Worthless'. Give it a shot if you like (before Xin wins it in 1942)

STYOM

	11-01-2002 00:11									#76
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Since my Civil War strategy relies largely on grabing AI empty cities in the first 3-4 turns, I tested its viability intensively. (That's why I haven't finished it yet). Interestingly, I found that the AI responds to change of production item in my cities. Suppose I do not change production items in turn 1, then the AI civs won't spend money on rush buying units. Hence, Some of the AI cities remain unprotected until turn 4. However, if I changed production items in all of my cities, the AI would rush buy defense in its cities and they will be protected by turn 3. Furthermore, the Grant unit generated by event on turn 2 would be fortified inside city if I did not change production, but would come out to attack me otherwise.

What remains unclear is the details of AI response intensity. Does it depend on number of cities, or number of total counts of changing production? Does incremental buying being counted once or multiple times? Does the Capital city play an important role, or does the distance from the city that changes production matters? Anyway, for this scenario it is good enough to know that If I don't change production on turn 1 at all then I'll be able to grab 10 AI cities by turn 3.

	11-01-2002 01:10									#77
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Xin Yu Interestingly, I found that the AI responds to change of production item in my cities. Anyway, for this scenario it is good enough to know that If I don't change production on turn 1 at all then I'll be able to grab 10 AI cities by turn 3.

Very interesting finding.
It seems that you are very close to explain how the AI fights in civ2.
WoW!

	11-01-2002 02:21									#78
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Very interesting, indeed!
Keep posting if you find out more details...

	11-01-2002 07:33									#79
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Hmmm... I could only change production ONCE on turn 1 (however immediately after occupying Indianapolis I could change production in that city only without consequences). If I went twice (including incremental buying), the AI started rush buying! On turn 2 I could not even change once. Any change would cause AI to rush build.

Hre are the .sav files for the first 3 turns under the best scenario.

Turn 1: after occupying Indianapolis, bank still left. Sell it then move the militia from Lexington to Louiseville (3/4 chance). Disband the militia, buy engineer, then switch to raider, buy it. This is not always possible, hence I call it the "best scenario".

Turn 2: raider occupied Columbus and Cleveland (hopefully the Union unit did not block the road (3/4 chance). Sold city improvements and rush built raiders plus a block runner in Cleveland (bought a temple then switch).

Turn 3: the raider from Paducah attacked Nashville, then the raider in Green Bawer occupied the city plus other two (the Rebel unit must not block the road (3/4 chance). Spent some money to buy a settler in Louiseville, then switch to granary, bought it to keep cash below 100. Talked to the South, paid 50 gold and got a peace treaty. Then talked to North, paid a tech and got a peace treaty as well. Plan to sell some improvements and rush buy the King Cotton wonder.

The trade route to New York is pretty much open so cash will come in soon. Should be an easy game from here.

Note: I tried to attach .sav files but it didn't work. Maybe I shouldn't attach all 3 in one post.

Another Note: Tried it again and this time have to pay 150 gold to the Rebels. Otherwise it's the same result: by turn 3 the Kentuckian has 17 cities, from Madison to Syracuse on top, Chattanuga on the bottom.

Last edited by Xin Yu on 11-01-2002 at 12:17

	15-01-2002 00:27									#80
	A disappointing truth Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Finally found the reason for AI rush buying. The civil war scenario starts with Union playing first. Since Kentuckian is before both Union and Rebel in playing sequence, Kentuckian got to play the first turn after Union and Rebel but the second turn before them. That is, the human player (Kentuckian) got to move twice before Union and Rebel can do anything. Thus the AI civs have no chance for rush buying before turn 2. However, if you save at end of turn 1 and reload the saved file for turn 2 (exactly what I did for testing my strategy), the AI got a chance to rush buy before turn 2. AI will definitely rush buy before turn 3 since they have enough cash (on deity level AI spend 1 gold for buying each shield, and do not spend money on maintainance).

Hence, the only thing I need to do to make my strategy work is: do not reload saved file on turn 1.

	17-01-2002 14:55									#81
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Civil war as Kentuckian: with caravan rehoming, March 1863. Wiped out the Union, the Rebel and the Indians. (Cannot attack Europeans).

Timeline:

July 1861, Union declared war. A kentuckian militia occupied Indianapolis (empty city). Disbanded a militia to rush build a C raider in Louisville.
Aug 1861, C raider occupied Columbus and Cleveland, militia occupied Chicago. Rejected cease fire offer from the Union. Rush built C raiders in cities and rush built a block runner in Cleveland(sold all libraries even banks in some cities).
Sept 1861, militia occupied milwaukee and madison, C raider from cleveland on block runner occupied Buffalo and Syracuse, C raider from Louisville occupied terra haute and fort wayne. Gave a tech 'Dixie land' to the Union and signed a peace treaty (with the tech the Union could not build advanced infantry. I was wondering why it kept asking for it). Met the Rebel, rejected peace offer. C raider from Paducah attacked Nashville and another C raider occupied the empty city as well as Chattanooga and Knoxville. Paid 150 gold and signed a peace treaty with the Rebel.
...
From then on, sold city improvements in occupied cities to get cash and built some engineers (30+) then built cotton traders. Celebrated Louisville to maximum size and rehomed cotton traders to the city, traded with New York. Rush bought the HG wonder for 800 golds to make celebration easier.
...
June 1862 discovered the tech for advanced infantry (could be one turn ealier but I wonder if that makes any difference since I would not have enough money to buy enough units for attacking in June).
July 1862 declared war on the Union. First attacked New England and occupied 5 cities there. From then on cotton traders would be delivered to Halifax, 2.5 times bonus compared to New York.
Oct 1862: Union down to 5 cities, declared war on the Rebel.
Dec 1862: Union destroyed. Advanced infantry outpaced engineers' speed of building RRs. Should have built more engineers earlier.
Feb 1863: Although I rush build Engineers in all cities for the past two turns, I was still about 5 Engineers short for finishing the Rebels. At this late I simply used engineers to put down cities whenever possible instead of building RRs everywhere. Rebel had only one city left and the Indians was gone. Interestingly, Julia Ward Howe was singing for the Union soldiers. Were they hiding in caves?
March 1863: not much to say. The Rebel finally offered all money and techs for a cease fire, which of course was too late.

I used mouse drag togo command to move my 100 units around the map via RRs. A lot faster than keyboard however sometimes I moved too fast and my units went out of the RR into wild. My right hand is still sour. This mouse trick works this way: you wake up units near Chicago and use mouse to drag on the map, stop at Chicago and release. After the first unit is done you sensor it. Now another unit in the nearby area will be activated. If you zoom out your map a little bit the map won't change location so your mouse is still above Chicago. You just move the mouse a little bit then drag again. Soon all nearby units will be in Chicago. Do this to all areas so that all units to be moved will be grouped together at several places. Then you start to gather them together by moving the stacks: you wake up all units in Chicago, then drag the mouse to Indianapolis. Once your mouse is above Indianapolis, you keep the mouse there and do drag, sensor, drag, sensor.... I prefer non-city squares for gathering troops since I can un-sensor units easily. I also use multiple squares which are close to one another: move to the next square if a stack reaches 9 units so that I can wake them all at once.

Thinking about the next one. Will it be the discovery, or the ww1? La Fayette, which one do you prefer?

Last edited by Xin Yu on 17-01-2002 at 21:33

	18-01-2002 05:50									#82
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I would like to join in with whatever scenario you are playing. Are these scenarios only available with MGE? I have the 2.42 to MGE patch, which doesn't have the scenarios.

	18-01-2002 12:07									#83
	Got spare money?

DrSpike: The scenarios are from 'Conflicts in Civilization' add on (CiC). The MPE version also has the scenarios.

I think there are copy right issues so you will not likely find the scenarios on the web. So you probably have to purchase it or ask somebody to send you via email.

	18-01-2002 17:55									#84
	Increase Your PM Length

Xin/La Fayette. Would you icq/mail me whatever scenarios we are playing? I just checked my usual online retailers and no-one sells it any more.

	18-01-2002 22:57									#85
	ww1 rather than discover Inflate your Upload Space

Dr Spike
I have zipped ww1 scenario for you, but didn't manage to send it. Check your emails, please!

Xin Yu
I have zipped ww1 for DrSpike, because I have played it only once, very swiftly, and would find it fun to have a second try.
'Discover' is also very interesting, but I have already played it several times with different strategies and don't feel like playing it once more just now.
So, if you don't mind, it would be ww1 (I played as French, but I don't care, so you choose your civ and I shall play the same one).

	18-01-2002 23:53									#86
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OK, ww1 French it is.

	19-01-2002 00:29									#87
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I'm in as soon as I receive the file; many thanks to La Fayette. At the moment I cannot play that fast, but should be able to keep up a steady pace.

	19-01-2002 03:20									#88
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With the death of civfan ladder and the current lack of tribes action I think I'll take a break from multiplayer and give this one a go too

P.S. I don't seem to have a copy of the 'discover' scenario although I have ww1 and a few others; my game was a converted one too. I would appreciate it if someone could send me a copy of it, as it sounds like an interesting one to have a go at. My email is drfellx@yahoo.com

Last edited by DrFell on 19-01-2002 at 03:27

	19-01-2002 13:37									#89
	Inflate your Upload Space

French in ww1: Lost two cities on turn 1 (aug1914), regained them in Sep1914 (British emptied a city for me). Prepared for several turns then started attacking Germany. By Apr1915 Germany has only one city left and I'll start attacking Italy and Russia.

	19-01-2002 19:15									#90
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I think they key to ww1 is attacking early - the central power's cities are very badly defended often with only one unit at the start, in my game I sold universities/libraries, turned tax up to 90% with 10% lux, and bought artillery. The hard city to crack is Cologne; after that you can usually blitz through Germany, once you've taken Berlin, it's all over. I recommend building a couple forts on railway lines early on too to protect your newly taken cities from counterattacks.