22-07-2001 23:02									#1
	Scenarios: Conflicts in Civilization Enter the AD-FREE zone

1) Previous experience:
ww2 with smaller civs (see my thread 'Arriba')
Rome (see my thread 'Delenda sunt')
Alexandre (see my thread 'Napoléon,...')

2) Conclusions:
Scenarios are FUN.
Scenarios are a nice way to compete in SP with good friends Apolytoners (experienced players not willing to specialize in OCC or early landing).

3) Therefore:
I shall publish here the results obtained playing 'Conflicts in Civilization' scenarios (+ a few words about what I liked and disliked).
Anyone willing to send his own results is free to do so, allowing us to build a tiny Hall of Fame.

4) Results:
I have played 6 scenarios out of 12, namely Alexandre, Alien, Apocalypse, Independence, Jihad and Napoléon.
Alexandre: DrFell holds the record (I must check the exact month)
Alien: 2044 Surf City conquered, Hodadian decisive defeat (I might have gone on conquering my fellow civs on earth, but felt satisfied with beating the aliens)
Apocalypse: Could not finish that game (bug: error message when Nuclear Fission is discovered)
Independence:
(as the Americans): August 1780, all cities are American (apart from Halifax/London and Port-au-Prince, defended by special units, La Fayette was satisfied with American independence and did not care with any more bloodshed)
(as the French): July 1782, no English city left (apart from Halifax/London, see above; La Fayette did not wish to start fighting his American friends).
Jihad: 731, all objectives Arab.

	23-07-2001 21:54									#2
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As I posted in the Nappy, Alex, et al thread, I'd played Jihad a long time ago. I don't remember the long endgame, maybe I stopped partway thru. I'll try to make time for it this weekend - this week is my succession game turn.

My war for independence against the evil english is going slowly. I don't know where they are hiding. A popup informed me of british reinforcements arriving, but they apparently got waylayed in Canada. I'll try to finish that game, too.

I'm not sure I've tried the others, except Mongols. I know I didn't finish it, tho. Probably got sidetracked with the Rome scenario...


(the guy on the right is the Marquis as the Marchioness finds him when she returns home, the two on the left should already be in bed)

	24-07-2001 01:14									#3
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Marquis
I would certainly enjoy having a look at your results, but IMHO the opinion of the Marchioness is much more important than mine.
Please, let those youngsters go to bed in time (and don't let them become Sega or Nintendo addicts: it's even worse than civ)


(this guy is La Fayette, so old that his younger daughter is already a student and never never asks him when to go to bed)

	24-07-2001 02:00									#4
	Marchioness? Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Rereading my post, I notice that 'la Marquise' sounds definitely better to my French ears than 'the Marchioness'.
If the youngsters are in bed and if you feel like it, you can tell her that, for me, she is la Marquise de Sodaq.


(La Fayette, wondering whether the French revolution should really send all Marquises to the guillotine)

	24-07-2001 19:40									#5
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Blame the english! A marquis was the duke of a remote province, also known as a "march." His poor wife got stuck with the anglicized name - maybe because "la marquise" sounds plural to english ears, je ne sais pas.

Last edited by Marquis de Sodaq on 26-07-2001 at 07:11

	24-07-2001 21:30									#6
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Those scenarios were really weak....only a handful of the scenarios in CiS and FW were any good. I enjoyed Mars, Jules Verne, Samurai, WWI, and that's about it. Scenarios made by the community were much better.

	24-07-2001 22:28									#7
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Marquis de Sodaq Blame the english! A marquis was the duke of a remote province, also known as a "march." His poor wife got stuck with the anglicized name - maybe because "la marquise" sounds plural to english ears, je ne c'est pas.

The next level down is even better - the wife of an Earl is a COUNTESS!!!

LOTM

	25-07-2001 03:03									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Hoek Those scenarios were really weak....only a handful of the scenarios in CiS and FW were any good. I enjoyed Mars, Jules Verne, Samurai, WWI, and that's about it. Scenarios made by the community were much better.

Some of us intend to play as many scenarios as possible in the near future.
Any good advice is welcome.
Therefore:
1) If you felt that some scenarios were weak, could you please explain why?
2) Can you remember the names of some scenarios made by the community that you enjoyed, and tell us where and how we can get them?

(this guy is La Fayette, eager to play the best scenario made by the community)

	25-07-2001 07:48									#9
	Check HS Spanish Civ Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

By today's standards, Hoek is right. Many scenarios in CIC and FW were innovative in their day, but what was innovative then has now become the expected minimum. The community really has advanced far beyond CIC/FW. You'll be very pleasantly surprised at the level of quality, creativity, and fun that can be found in many contempory scenarios. Here are a few links to Ancient Times scenarios.

Personally, I like Celts and Iberians, the Roman invasion of the Iberian peninsula, by Jay Bee. Very atmospheric, tough terrain, and a nice balance of units. He's one of the best and well worth investigating. Check the forums at his site for comments on several of his scenarios:

Forum on Jay Bee's Scenarios

Spanish Civ2 Site (Scenarios)

Another master of this era is Kull. His finest (IMHO) to date is 'Seeds of Greatness'. Marvelous tech tree, good events, and very 'replayable'. Can be found here:

Kull's scenarios

Don't overlook BeBro's Imperium Romanum. I'm embarrassed to say I haven't played it yet, but from what I've read, it sets the standard for Rise of Rome scenarios.

BeBro's scenarios

I'm sure others can fill you in on other eras. Btw, I think all three of these authors are working on new scenarios.

Explore and have fun!

	25-07-2001 07:59									#10
	d'accord Full PM-box? Change here!

I actually like many of the scenarios I've found over at the Spanish CivII site. All are top quality. Also, in the vein of our Rome fixation, there are several scenarios that are better than the default scenario.

I thought we were playing CiC scenarios initially because they (and ww2, rome) were available to all, regardless of game version. No harm in opening a thread about a particular scenario, to be sure!

BTW, La Fayette, in Independence, I was able to kick the english out of the south by december 1777. I've retaken Newport in june 1779. Alas, they still hold New York and Canada.

	25-07-2001 20:02									#11
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Any scenarios from the following people are high quality:

Hoek (one of the two I made is on the Spanish site, both are on CSC), Allard Hoefelt (that's my dawg!), Jesus Balsinde, Harlan Thompson, Micheal Daumen, Captain Nemo, Jon Petroski, Stefan Hartel...Jesus Munoz, Mike Jesenka, and Alex Mor also have some good ones. Go to CSC to find probably the largest selection, and the Spanish site keeps a little more up to date, also if you look at the Scenario League website, that could give you some decent reviews to guide you in selecting scenarios.

Here are some top-notch scenarios that I have enjoyed:

Alba de America-JB
Boer War-Allard
Red Front-Jon Petroski
Moscow-M Daumen
Mongols-Harlan Thompson
War of Cuba-Jesus Munoz+JB
Civil War-Captain Nemo
Spartacus-Alex Mor
WW2Pacific-Mike Jesenka

	25-07-2001 21:38									#12
	Re: d'accord Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Marquis de Sodaq I thought we were playing CiC scenarios initially because they (and ww2, rome) were available to all, regardless of game version. BTW, La Fayette, in Independence, I was able to kick the english out of the south by december 1777. I've retaken Newport in june 1779. Alas, they still hold New York and Canada.

1) Playing CiC scenarios because they are available to all was in fact my objective (after having had fun playing ww2 and Rome).
It remains so. I think some competition adds to the fun of it (and I don't really care if someone gets a result better than mine, though I am very happy when this doesn't occur ).

2) The English in New York and Quebec! This is a vile provocation that can no longer be tolerated. Kick, Marquis! Kick!

	25-07-2001 22:31									#13
	Thank you very much Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Boco and Hoek
Thank you for the tips.

As previously explained, my main objective when playing civ is to have FUN. I noticed a few months ago, playing ww2 with smaller civs, that great fun might be had even playing ancient scenarios and that some competition added to the fun.
I think that any of those who had a try at 'Rome' did enjoy it (even among those who are not in the tiny Hall of Fame today ).

That is why some of us started playing Cic scenarios on the same basis (have a try, post your results if you feel like it and discuss your mistakes if you feel like it).

AFAIK, before we started that, there were 3 ways to have fun competing when you were an experienced player at civ2, namely MP, OCC and early landing. Scenarios are a fourth way (and my own highway for the time being).

Scenarios provide a fair ground for friendly competition (and discussing mistakes is hopefully a nice way to reduce the number of mistakes you make afterwards).

My short term objective was to play all 12 scenarios in CiC + a few in FW (I have finished and loved X-Com, almost finished and disliked Midgard, especially because of boring endgame; in fact I got bored enough to stop with 2 tiny enemy cities still hidden somewhere in the black; and I am finishing Samurai now), so as to give a fair basis of comparison to anyone willing to play any of these (since I publish my results even if not satisfied with them).

But your tips make me wish to also have a try at some scenarios from the community. Thank you again.

	26-07-2001 08:05									#14
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Hoek - Red Front is Nemo's; though IIRC Petroski's Up the Deadly Boot is really good.

RF and Second Front are two WW2 games that I continually play - but they can be pretty hard the first time through and they have gotten a fair amount of publicity already.

Daumen's The Great Game is really good too.

Harlan's Lord of the Rings is a must for any Tolkien fan.

BeBro's all look excellent, but I have yet to give them a go.

It can be a little overwhelming since there are so many great scenario's out there - and most of them are big long games.


oh for a few short tactical scenarios like Leo's Roman Riots that could be played in less than a month...

	27-07-2001 08:24									#15
	Oops Suffering from ads?

quote: Boco and Hoek Thank you for the tips.

quote: Playing CiC scenarios because they are available to all was in fact my objective.

La Fayette, your patience for someone who missed your point is appreciated. I'm afraid my level of playing, though far from average, is not high.

Of the FW scenarios, Verne attracts me the most. As you migrate from CiC to FW, I'll keep an eye out.

If you do try other scenarios, by all means, start a new thread.

	30-07-2001 19:37									#16
	scenarios and where to find them Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by La Fayette Some of us intend to play as many scenarios as possible in the near future. Any good advice is welcome. Therefore: 1) If you felt that some scenarios were weak, could you please explain why? 2) Can you remember the names of some scenarios made by the community that you enjoyed, and tell us where and how we can get them? (this guy is La Fayette, eager to play the best scenario made by the community)

La fayette:

I like historical scenarios, and felt inspired to create a "historical scenario meta page" which would not actually have any downloads, but would serve as a guide to the many sources of scenarios on the net. Unfortunately Im new at web site creation, and tried this on AOL hometown, and didnt back it up offline. AOL ate my page, and i have not yet felt encouraged enough to try again. Sounds like you would find something like this useful. Let me know, and i may try again.

LOTM
"La Fayette, we are here" - General John Pershing

	30-07-2001 21:14									#17
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A question for Boco and Hoek (et al):

What scenarios can you recommend that are playable with v2.42? I've looked at the Scenario League items, and most scenarios require later versions of the game.

Thanks!

	31-07-2001 01:59									#18
	Re: scenarios and where to find them Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark La fayette: I like historical scenarios, and felt inspired to create a "historical scenario meta page" Unfortunately Im new at web site creation, Sounds like you would find something like this useful. Let me know, and i may try again. LOTM "La Fayette, we are here" - General John Pershing

I am just as new as you are at web site creation, so I won't be a great help (apart from testing the games if needed ).
But I like your idea.
We might come to create some kind of SSL (Small Scenario Library). I suppose that my friends SG, Marquis or SlowThinker (all of them great specialists of GLs and alike) would be good advisers.
(in fact the SGs come to France on vacation within a few weeks from now, and we are almost cetainly going to have a talk about the storing of knowledge related to civ2; perhaps I take a trip to Praha or to Minnesota later on; IMHO meeting friends is a much nicer way to spend holydays than getting sunburnt on the beach).

	31-07-2001 02:17									#19
	Mars scenario Increase the size of your Attachments

242: French Airforce destroys Kamarov.
Mars scenario completed.
Terrain, units, tech tree,..., anything is slightly different from the standard game and that makes it really interesting. I don't know at all which would be the optimal path for research in that game (perhaps we should ask samson or solo), but I had lots of fun trying to avoid researching too many unnecessary techs. The Ukrainians were tough nuts to crack and the American capital (named Armstrong, of course) wasn't easy to approach.

(La Fayette after a few minutes of brainstorming about the choice of the next tech to be researched).

	31-07-2001 03:17									#20
	wrong thread Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Rereading, I realize that Mars is a FW scenario.
Wrong thread. Sorry. Excuse me.

	27-08-2001 09:38									#21
	French win ww1 Got spare money?

September 1919: French artillery kills the last strong defender of the mighty city of Halifax. All objective cities conquered.

That game was fun, but I'm not really satisfied with this result.
Main reasons why:
1) There is a very nice problem for micromanagers in the early game, and I didn't spend enough time thinking about it = solution chosen is far from optimal.
2) I didn't use the weapon named 'toxic gaz' (probably because of bad remembrances in the real world) but after all this is a game and that weapon is performing, so I should have used it.
3) Quite big map = many cities to manage in the endgame. As usual when this is the case I am on the edge of getting bored and play too swiftly (= some more mistakes).

The end of it should have been in june 1919, but my transport on its way to Halifax was sent to the bottom by a very unexpected American destroyer .

	27-08-2001 10:00									#22
	Tiny Hall of Fame Tired of ads?

Here is the current Hall of Fame for scenarios 'conflicts in civilization':

Alexandre (Macedonians): Sept 331 - DrFell
Aliens (Europeans): 2044 - La Fayette (*)
Apocalypse (Serene Lights): bug (couldn't finish )
Independence (Americans): August 1780 - La Fayette (*)
Independence (French): July 1782 - La Fayette(*)
Jihad (Arabs): 731 - La Fayette
Napoléon (French): March 1804 - La Fayette
ww1 (French): Sept 1919 - La Fayette

All those results are 'all objectives conquered or destroyed; deity level', except: (*)
(*) = Aliens = Aliens beaten, other civs untouched.
(*) = Independence (Americans) = all objectives apart from Halifax and Port-au-Prince (special defence forces)
(*) = Independence (French) = English beaten, Americans untouched.

	27-08-2001 11:13									#23
	Next game: Civilwar Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

If someone feels like competing 'realtime', my next game will be:
CIVILWAR (played as 'Kentucky' for the fun of it).
(Marquis
I'm sorry, the choice of Minnesota wasn't offered).

	27-08-2001 16:14									#24
	Re: Next game: Civilwar Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by La Fayette If someone feels like competing 'realtime', my next game will be: CIVILWAR (played as 'Kentucky' for the fun of it). (Marquis I'm sorry, the choice of Minnesota wasn't offered).

Ah, the Minnesotans of the day fought Union side. When they weren't killing Indians, that is. Just this year Virginia demanded Minnesota return a banner captured by a Minn. regiment in the Civil War. Our governor declared it as war spoils, loot not to be returned!

I will try to finish my war of Independence. New York is still under cruel English oppression!

I'll play Jihad, but also ignore those far-flung objectives. Allah is just not too interested in them, I hear. The Arabic Sodaqi shall overcome!

The Civil War scenario as Kentucky might be fun, especially considering the unfavorable stereotypes of Kentuckians today. Having them conquer the US and Confederacy may be worth a laugh.

If time allows, perhaps I will rewrite the great war.

	28-08-2001 07:08									#25
	Civil War! Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I've started playing as the Kentuckians, although the real ultimate challenge may be as the Indians. They look even more hopeless than the WWII Neutrals! Though they do start far out of the way...

Luckily for my people, we have the secret tech of Quantum Physics, which allows the Alternate Universe wonder...

In my first failures, I have learned the following about leading Kentucky to glory in the American Civil War:

• Kentucky is pathetic, backward, and defenseless. (In the scenario, too.)
  
• Do not talk to anybody except the Indians, you will only find war. They will talk to you if you meet them, go out of your way to avoid contact at all costs.
  
• Settle new cities immediately. Settlers are dirt cheap (10 shields!).
  
• Switch to monarchy after you save up some gold.
  
• Don't bother to research, sell your libraries.
  
• Rushbuild units continuously.
  
• Send out roving militias, the Union is keen to settle new towns without defenders. This is as good a source of gold as merchants. Also use them to pillage the roads that lead bad guys to Kentucky.

	28-08-2001 07:13									#26
	Independence! Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

La Fayette, your record (august 1780) will remain intact. In january of that year, I've purged the English from the states, but they are still in Canada. I have a crowd of bad guys outside Montreal, it should fall by august, but Quebec is cozy and safe. They even had the nerve to settle a new town along the St. Lawrence River to hinder my progress. Ah, well, I've mirrored history.

	28-08-2001 19:57									#27
	Re: Independence! Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Marquis de Sodaq La Fayette, your record (august 1780) will remain intact. They even had the nerve to settle a new town along the St. Lawrence River to hinder my progress. Ah, well, I've mirrored history.

Of course, I shall be especially sorry when La Fayette stops being number 1 at giving a helping hand to American independance .
Nice of you to stop before Montreal. Thank you, Marquis.

(as far as the third city built between Montreal and Quebec is concerned, the real name is 'Three Rivers' - I camped there many years ago-; therefore it is the scenario that doesn't mirror history ).

	28-08-2001 20:03									#28
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Rereading my post, I realize that I must apologize AT ONCE:
The real name of that city is 'Trois Rivières', of course.

(La Fayette, really sorry when he translates such a beautiful city name, without noticing it)

	28-08-2001 22:04									#29
	Re: Civil War! Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Marquis de Sodaq *]Kentucky is pathetic, backward, and defenseless. (In the scenario, too.)

I leave this opinion to YOU, Marquis.

I have the pleasure to announce that Ken Turk, glorious leader of the Kentuckians, is the proud owner of 14 objective cities, conquered from the Confederation after very hard fighting (up to 9 units lost for one city) in the month of may 1868, official time limit for this scenario.
In fact, the mighty Kentuckian troops stopped right in front of the proud city of FAYETTEVILLE, since the main adviser of Ken Turk advised not to sack a city bearing such a glorious name.

(snapshot of La Fayette, right in the middle of the main road to downtown Fayetteville)

	30-08-2001 20:30									#30
	Fight the Union Increase the size of your Attachments

Fighting hard against the confederates, I couldn't help wondering what would happen if I fought the Union instead.
That is why I had a second try, which shows that I made a huge strategical mistake when I chose to fight the South.

Listen, brothers:
My result after fighting the Union is 39 objectives Kentuckian in may 1868 (instead of 14 after fighting the Confederation!).
I left the Union with 1 objective city, because it bears the nice French name of 'Des Moines' , and the Confederation with 12, because of the time limit.
IMO this result shows:
1) That the designer of the scenario was probably born in the deep South
2) That all 52 objectives might perhaps be conquered by Kentucky within the time limit of May 1868, with very careful planning from the start (and I am sure this would highly surprise my friend Marquis )

(La Fayette, with the right eye looking at Fayetteville and the left one looking at Des Moines).