23-07-2001 00:51									#1
	Refuggee Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

if there is war going on in the city next you, some of its citizens might try to ecape the war by coming to your city. Refuggee comsume as much resource as a regular citizen but produce only 50%. And the native citizen will be unhappy.

	23-07-2001 03:21									#2
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Are you saying you want this idea or that it should be implemented, or are you saying that it is in the game?

	23-07-2001 03:34									#3
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the stronger a civ's culture is, the more likely it should be to attract refugees. the actual civs' relationships, one's economy and gov should matter as well.

a civ with the Nationalism gov shouldn't be able to accept imigrants.

there should also be an acceptance slider for you immigration policy.

as we've been told every pop point will have it's own nationality, the refugee should keep it's origin, and may vanish when the home country situation improves.

Last edited by Juggernaut on 23-07-2001 at 03:40

	23-07-2001 23:25									#4
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Refugees are a good idea. Would you be allowed to house them in concentration camps, as we do in Britain (at least the camps are under construction). And we have a "socialist" government!

	23-07-2001 23:32									#5
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I would think that you would just count them as another (useless) pop point, taking up residential space...

	23-07-2001 23:34									#6
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Perhaps if a city nearby ( not necessarily one of your own ) is conquered you would be given the option of accepting the refugees, the first 5 turns or so they cost you gold but after that they are integrated as normal citizens. An example would be like:
" Refugees from the Greek City of Corinth has arrived in Rome, do
you wish to accept them? "

	23-07-2001 23:39									#7
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5 years? I don't think it would take that long...

	23-07-2001 23:44									#8
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quote: Originally posted by death_head 5 years? I don't think it would take that long...

For gameplay reasons I think it would be the best, if we start counting years like that we can throw almost every feature out the window.

	24-07-2001 00:57									#9
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[QUOTE] Originally posted by uncle_funk
the stronger a civ's culture is, the more likely it should be to attract refugees. the actual civs' relationships, one's economy and gov should matter as well.

so now you want there to a disadvantage to having a higher culture rating!?

	24-07-2001 01:22									#10
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eh, more citizens are never a disadvantage. there are scientific proofs showing the more people, the more economic growth.

ie. in sweden we can praise our generous immigration policy that we have a sufficient workforce to support the baby boom of the 40's when they retire.

and if you had read my whole post you'd seen the supplemental idea of the "immigration slider". you could have it at zero if you want to keep people out of you borders.

	24-07-2001 02:44									#11
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Good point...but I think that even from a gameplay viewpoint that 5 years is a bit too much. Three would be good, or maybe they could just get assimilated as you pay for them with psych energy (or whatever the Civ equivalent is)

	24-07-2001 03:06									#12
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quote: a civ with the Nationalism gov shouldn't be able to accept imigrants.

I don't know why people state that Nationalism is going to be a gov., it has never been confirmed.

	24-07-2001 05:30									#13
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quote: Originally posted by death_head Good point...but I think that even from a gameplay viewpoint that 5 years is a bit too much. Three would be good, or maybe they could just get assimilated as you pay for them with psych energy (or whatever the Civ equivalent is)

Yes but this is surely only a matter of balancing the game correctly. All in all I think it would add a nice touch to the game without much more micromanagement.

	24-07-2001 11:05									#14
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quote: Originally posted by TechWins I don't know why people state that Nationalism is going to be a gov., it has never been confirmed.

no, i think somwhere along the line they said it was gona boot out fundy (

	24-07-2001 11:48									#15
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quote: no, i think somwhere along the line they said it was gona boot out fundy

Firaxis did state that Fundy will be out but never did they state that nationalism would be a gov. choice. Unless somebody can show me proof of nationalism going to be a gov. choice then I'm going to stick with what I think.

	24-07-2001 12:15									#16
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TechWins nice of you to talk about my favorite subject...

I'm not now going to tell my ideas instead I just give some links to old threads instead for you to read.

http://apolyton.net/forums/Archives...7-6-000467.html
Third post in the thread - look at date

http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum6/HTML/001656.html
(Comparing SMACX idea of refugees as basis)

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...light=refuge%2A
(A good explanation about how i see refugees)

	24-07-2001 12:47									#17
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quote: TechWins nice of you to talk about my favorite subject...

I have only posted about Nationalism being a gov. choice, that is why I thought those links were about Nationalism but I then discovered they're about the refugee.

Your idea about refugees is very good. I'm still not quite sure what civ would absorb the refugee unit, though. What I mean is how is it determined on who gets the refugee unit? If you could expand more on your idea in this thread that would be appreciated.

	24-07-2001 14:36									#18
	The refugee unit Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I've had "refugees" as an extra unit for years.

They are settlers that can move over both land and water (domain = 3) and arrive in the game with gunpowder.

The original idea had to do with a scenario I was creating (they would appear instead of partisans and the city would lose half of it's population when conquered) but I liked them so much I kept them in my rules.txt file.

It's "sort of" a cheat but it sure makes populating those islands off-coast much easier.

Side note about Sweden's Immigration Policy...

Uncle_Funk: Skojar du, eller hur? "Sverige har en generös invandringspolicy". Hoo, hoo. Inte alls (åtminstone inte nu). Nästan 50% av alla invandrare inom Sverige kommer från Norden (mest från Finland). Hur som helst, nu måste alla icke-svenska medborgare som tänker att jobba i Sverige betala 1000 SEK per år för att få uppehållstillståndet. Vänta och se hur många nya invandrare (ej asylsökande) ska flytta hit.

Last edited by fittstim on 24-07-2001 at 15:00

	24-07-2001 16:09									#19
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Refugees are a welcome input into certain types of nation, particularly ones with a high demand for unskilled low-wage labour. When there is racial dislike and high unemployment the influx is less positive and less welcomed. Like slavery before it, immigration is a touchy subject and one that I doubt Civ wants to tackle. If they did, I would be strongly in favour of a proportion of immigrants never assimilating into the new culture, but retaining their original cultural identity (based on relative cultural strengths, with equal cultural values resulting in a 50% absorbtion).

	24-07-2001 19:32									#20
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Is there a particular reason why you can't have both governments? I ask only because I don't play Civ, thus, I am ignorant.

	25-07-2001 03:15									#21
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quote: Originally posted by death_head I ask only because I don't play Civ, thus, I am ignorant.

what do you play? SMAC?

	25-07-2001 04:52									#22
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quote: Is there a particular reason why you can't have both governments? I ask only because I don't play Civ, thus, I am ignorant.

Are you talking about Fundamentalism and Nationalism? If you are I'll explain a little. Fundamentalism was pretty much a cheap gov. that people would use towards end game, after discovering most of the techs with Democ.. The gov. was cheap because people could have endless amounts of units in or out of their cities while not incurring any happiness problems. That's my basic outtake on Fundy, so I think that's why Firaxis discarded Fundy for Civ3. Now Nationalism hasn't been confirmed as a gov. choice for Civ3. It might seem like it has been confirmed with a lot of people claiming that it is a gov. choice for Civ3 but in actuallity it hasn't been confirmed. You should really think about buying Civ2MGE because it only cost me $15, so I would imagine that it wouldn't be no more than $20 out where you live. I'm sure you could afford that. If you can't you're really missing out on a great game.