23-07-2001 08:49									#1
	Is science too slow in MedModII? Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

All,

I might be a rookie player, but it seems like science moves a little slow in this game. Right now, its 1960, and I still don't have internal combustion (its a medium game). I haven't been a total warmoger and have been pretty much putting universities everywhere.

Just curious if I'm the only one seeing this.

	23-07-2001 17:03									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

You are right about that. but it should have been fixed with te 18/7 update in wes text files. Did you get it?

	23-07-2001 17:59									#3
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Nope, havent downloaded them yet. Im right in the middle of the FIRST CTP2 game I've ever enjoyed all the way through (no small thanks to Wes and everyone else on that). So I don't want to switch over in midstream - afraid of killing off my current game.

Soon as I finish this one, I'll pull the files down and try it with a new game.

Glad to know that was fixed. My current game was starting to look like "Planet of the Gifted Children".

	23-07-2001 18:27									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I'm actually playing the latest update on impossible level and got about 15 cities by now (1880 AD).
My current research project is internal combustion, which seems quit O.K. for the end of the 19th century, but I think I got about one third of my technologies by espionage and tech trading. Without the other civs (20 of them in my current game, but only three, which are still up to date in science) I think, I would still hang around in the medieval age.

So in my opinion diplomacy (and espionage) is the key to rapidly getting through the tech tree. At least it is on impossible level. On the lower levels the AI players are probably less evolved themselves, but I don't know.

	23-07-2001 21:33									#5
	Increase Your PM Length

I agree.
I have a game in about 1970 on Medium difficulty and am still in the Industrial age, and I am the most advanced civ by far.

	23-07-2001 22:05									#6
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Well, my game is a medium with only 4 races (one is me). I'm the most advanced, so there is noplace for me to get science then my own labs. BTW, I had 22 cities at 1900AD, and many of them are quite big (18+). So I'm no slacker on my empire.

My next game, I'll be sure to put more races in. Oh, and run the new patch.

	24-07-2001 12:48									#7
	gold and science Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Another thing I found out in the above mentioned game (which I stopped yesterday in order to try out the ultra gigantic map from the Aployton Pack. WOW, man, it's really big! I chose 25 civs and until now (1500 BC) only found two of them) is, that all academies, banks and other city improvements don't help you at all, if the city doesn't produce any gold anyway.

A bonus of 30 % is zero, when it is added to zero!

When I discovered, that many of my cities including the biggest ones had no gold and science output despite being full of improvements I started building tile improvements that raise the gold output.
This helps a lot!

Until then I never built much of them and concentrated on farms and mines instead, but in MM2 it seems you need these things (and this way it is good!).

	24-07-2001 20:46									#8
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

As a fan of the Phonicians (and Carthaginians), I've always been fascinated by ancient trade. So I try to set up as many trade routes as I can. This really helps out, since larger cities really tend to have a problem in paying for themselves (with merchants, you can just about break even).

I usually play pretty light on the goods, since I dont want to make it too easy. Still, my current empire has 5 trade routes running, for a total of roughtly (guessing here) 400gp per turn. So, yeah, we should be bringing in a lot of money (and science).

I tend to group my centers of learning in trading cities, since thats where the cash is going to be. Other cities, with large pops and little manufactuing, I'll turn into university towns by purchasing universities there and running up the number of scentists.

I guess it comes down to the number of trade routes and numbers of oppoents. Still, is there a single variable that modifies the rate of science to all races during a game?

	24-07-2001 20:57									#9
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Im sorry to tell you that but income from trade does not raise your science . What gives science is the commerce from each city wich is converted into science according to science rate stablished from each gov.

	24-07-2001 21:56									#10
	Got spare money?

What??? Have my science advisor brought in! Guards, kill him!



...well, that leads into another topic - how to tell what your revenue flows are in the game. I cant tell just what is going where. For example, if I sell indulgences, there is noplace that tells me how much I am making. Same with the corporate branch opening franchises. I can't tell how much of my stuff is going where.

Further, I'd wish that they had another screen (under Nation) that would show how many things your city makes (food, gold, science, and production) and how many specialists you have active there, and let you adjust it from there. Sometimes, when I'm running tight and I bump a slider, I gotta fix a couple of cities with entertainers to carry me through. But its easy to forget that these guys are still working, even after the arena is built.

Anyway, thats good to know about trade - a little misconception on my part, I guess. Right now, in the mid to late 1900s, I'm pulling down science advances every 4-6 turns, but I'm still behind actual history. Hanvn't had that many wars, so I don't know. Really, this is my first game that has kept me playing all the way through, so I'm in a new element (and loving it) at this point. The only thing in my favor is that the computer dosn't seem any better than I am at getting advances (he's still on the recieving end of my gunpowder advance )

I'll just have to see how things go in my next game. Gotta wrap this one up first.

	25-07-2001 00:10									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

...waitaminute...

I was sitting in a dull meeting a while ago, thinking this through. Gold from trade is earned (and reported) by the initiating city. That money is earned, just like monies for surrounding tiles is earned, and it is subject to the city's science percentage. And that goes to grants to make lots of wonderful science, like guns and bombs and stuff, right?

I thought that the cities that launched a good trade route brought in a lot of cash, and that made a lot of local science.

Thats right, right?

	25-07-2001 08:02									#12
	Inflate your Upload Space

Trade is add straight to your gold after science is taken out before it is added. Gold from trade is not subject to the science percentage. The best way to increase science it to build tile improvements. BTW, does anyone think tile improvements are too expensive?

You can see the gold, production, and food in the city or is it national manger button. Its the button at the 9 oclock position I believe.

	27-07-2001 23:52									#13
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Well, I am sorry to see reports that the AIs are not keeping up in the science field. One thing to keep in mind however is that the timeline is designed for the most advanced civs in the game. In real life, this has been Europe and the other industrialized countries for the past couple hundred years.

Engineer is also right about trade being only gold, and not commerce. I wish that this was different, but unfortunately this cannot be changed by me. I also wish there were the buttons that Bluevoss listed, but that is not available either.