24-07-2001 07:31									#1
	Colombus or De Gama: Who was more important? Inflate your Upload Space

Seems like we haven't been talking much, boys, only playing games, so, I put forth the question:

Which man was more important to history, Columbus, who opened up the new world for Europe to exploit, or De Gama, who opened the trade route to India and broke the muslim hold on Asian trade that had gone on for centuries?

As always, I will wait to see what the fellows have to say before I post comments on this subject, so let's here what you have to say!

	24-07-2001 19:57									#2
	Inflate your Upload Space

Columbus' actions had the more far-reaching and larger impact, particularly on the inhabitants of the americas. The indies were also exploited, but the impact on the people there was not as profound. Opening the americas brought in more trade goods and wealth than the routes to the east brought europeans, if I understand it correctly. Mountains of precious metals were shipped back to europe. More than half the world's major food crops (maize, potatoes, tomatoes, etc) are of american origin, an offshoot of this event. The same holds for medicines.

That said, I'm more knowledgeable about what happened in the americas than in asia... Somebody who knows more, chime in!

	24-07-2001 21:08									#3
	Got spare money?

Let's take it this way:

What was more important, getting to India or to America? Which had more impact?

I'd have to say America. As Sodaq said, moutains of gold, silver, new foodstuffs, new medicines...
In America, it was not a bed of roses though, new diseases, death, destruction and conquest. Civilisation? Nah.

In India: spices, exotic foodstuffs as well.
As for the Indians, it was the beginning of oppression of imperialism that would last over 500 years. Good? Neither.

We should go back in history and kill them both and see what the course of history would be like.

	25-07-2001 00:43									#4
	Inflate your Upload Space

Thank you Chris, I was really missing this kind of threads

Your question can't be quickly answered:

1st of all I'd say that I've never 100% understood the word important (in Spanish importante so it's not a problem with a foreign language). What the infierno does it mean? more what than the rest?

It's important() to say that both guys were looking for the same thing: a trade route to India but following opposite courses. Luckily for Colombus, he was wrong, what makes me think Vasco was a better sailor and cartographer (does this make Vasco more important than Columbus?). Or perhaps Columbus was more audacious than Vasco (C>V?), or more imprudent (V>C?). To sum up I don't know!.

What I do know is that Columbus' voyages changed the face of the world as no other known event in History did, so imho C's voyages were more important than V's.

	25-07-2001 04:22									#5
	Some notes on Da Gama Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Well, it seems so far that the voyages of Columbus are more well known then those of Da Gama, so let's talk a little bit about Vasco, shall we?

His journey began before noon, on Saturday July 8, 1497, with four vessals, for a trip of 27,000 miles, round trip, to a place that was controlled by the sworn enemies of Christians, India.

India was heavily under the influence of islam, and the great Mogul still controlled (losely) the affairs of the country.

Half of the distance had already been mapped by Dias in 1488, so Da Gama knew what to expect on the first leg, but on the second, the east coast of africa, the Portugese had only sketchy knowledge of what to expect Portugal's master spy, Pero da Covilhâ, had not been able to make it to the horn of africa, so the portugese were not well prepared for what they found.

Da Gama found many old, and powerful enemies in his journey, not backward savages, and yet was able to carve out a place for trade against these hostile enemies.

Because of his efforts, Islam's hammer lock on trade from the orient, the source of their great wealth, was finally broken, and the european world wide land grab could begin.

I'll talk about Columbus next post.

	25-07-2001 22:24									#6
	a break in the thread. Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

This has nothing to do with the topic, but this is my 3,000 post (that counts) at poly, and I wanted it here, in a thread I started, in my favorite forum, where all my friends are.

Thanks for all the fun guys!

	25-07-2001 23:07									#7
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

*kicks Chris in the shin*

Share some posts!

On another hand, is it my turn on the Spanish Pride PBEM?

	25-07-2001 23:30									#8
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by El Awrence *kicks Chris in the shin*

Ouch!

quote: Share some posts!

Sure, you can have the 300 I had PCRd for various gags I pulled!

quote: On another hand, is it my turn on the Spanish Pride PBEM?

Yes, I sent it and posted it about 5 years ago!

	26-07-2001 08:57									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Colombus considered and was considered himself a failture.
De Gama considered himself and was considered a hero.

Por ellos (time periods) ellos (were differently important, but nowadays, I would say Colombus. It may have taken 50 more years for another explorer to try to go west and find america, delaying) developmencia de americana [american development]

	26-07-2001 23:14									#10
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by DarkCloud Colón se consideraba y fue considerado un fracasado. De Gama se consideraba y fue considerado un héroe. En ese período, ellos fueron importantes de forma diferente, pero hoy en día, yo diría que Colón. Podían haber pasado 50 años más para que otro explorador intentara ir hacia el Oeste y encontrara América, retrasando así el desarrollo americano.

I think this is what you meant.

	27-07-2001 03:17									#11
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I do not think there's much more to add to what has already been written. da Gama was the pioneer but Columbus' voyage has been by far more important, I think. Besides, Columbus sailed under a Spanish flag and da Gama not. That should also count for something!

	27-07-2001 03:21									#12
	Suffering from ads?

Oh, and congrats on your emperorship!! You will soon catch me. And thanks for being such a friendly dude!

BTW, I knew you were restricted once cos I have access to privileged info but I did not know you were PCR'ed as well. Care to fill us in the details?

	27-07-2001 03:46									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

gracias por la translacion!

	27-07-2001 06:45									#14
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Jay Bee Oh, and congrats on your emperorship!! You will soon catch me. And thanks for being such a friendly dude!

Anytime, my friend.

quote: BTW, I knew you were restricted once cos I have access to privileged info but I did not know you were PCR'ed as well. Care to fill us in the details?

Well, the restriction was for 2 days, for "death threats" against a certain British pest, but it was an over-reaction by certain powers that be.

The PCR came from a rather amusing gag on Saddam.
Saddam was convinced that I was a DL, since he only read the Off Topic, and I never start topics there.
Caligastia and I came up with the concept that I was his DL, and he started using my signature, and both of us kept saying it whenever we saw a Saddam post.

He was very angry (Saddam), and was screaming about us in the Comunity forum, so Cal and I started posting a long sentance, alternating between us for each word, that came out to about 20 posts.

Everybody thought it was hilarious, but Mark didn't think so, so he zapped us with the ol' -10%

Lost abot 240 posts or so. The others were lost in various tech glitches and crashes, but I never asked for them back, because PC is really pointless (unless your an Emperor! ).