25-07-2001 01:30									#1
	So, what’s in for the statistics lover? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I think I’ve made a thread like this once or twice before, but I suppose there’s no harm in starting another, especially since most of you won’t remember. (I can hardly remember them myself)

We have received a reasonable amount of info about civ3 already but I haven’t seen much of the statistics yet, which was a pretty much neglected feature in civ2. (the demographics screen, the civ score and the power graph, that was about it)
So what I’d like to have is a wide range of clear cut, precise statistics and charts representing all features of your empire and the others, ranging from economic to military.
Ever seen CIA’s world factbook? I think the game ought to have such one to view your empire and others and charts comparing the figures of each empire.
It’s not only practical, the easier it is to oversee your empire in a single sheet, the easier it is to govern, it is also plain fun for stats lovers like me to compare your empire against other or against the past, to view your progress or decay.

I don’t think it’s too much to ask since, the data is already present in the game, it just needs to be covered and any 8 year old with some grasp of MS Excel can make slick, precise graphs.

And related to this, why not provide us with some good maps for change? We had the main screen but the only way to view a political map in civ1 or SMAC was by retiring from the game, which wasn’t very practical. Other maps might be a little harder but not impossible, such as population density, altitude, pollution, transport networks etc
Sim City had it, so why not civ3?

Featuring good data screens and maps alone would be a large incentive for me to buy the game. (though not nearly as large as a good AI and diplomacy model but that's another issue)

Comments?

	25-07-2001 01:36									#2
	Tired of ads?

I love statistics, but I think that they should be totally customizable. Not everyone wants to see all that stuff. Personally, I wouldn't mind a report of every single battle in the game, just to analyze statistics and so forth...

	25-07-2001 02:22									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

If stats are included, they should really focus on the ones that effect the gameplay rather than just there for fun. Knowing land areas, populations, gold income/gdp meant more in Civ2 than knowing length of military service or literacy rates. A definite must, for example, is a stat graph for pollution levels of different civs.

	25-07-2001 02:32									#4
	Suffering from ads?

They need to make it possible to see all sorts of statistics, on anything the player wants. That way, nobody will be disappointed, and if someone hates stats, they can just turn them off...

	25-07-2001 02:44									#5
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by death_head They need to make it possible to see all sorts of statistics, on anything the player wants. That way, nobody will be disappointed, and if someone hates stats, they can just turn them off...

I agree with you, but you don't want to be overloaded with stats.

On the more practical side how much time are Firaxis going to be able to spend on peripherals. In a trade off between a good bug free game and stats up to your neck, I know what I would choose.

	25-07-2001 02:48									#6
	Inflate your Upload Space

There actually has been some threads that are like this one recently.

I want to be bormaded with stats from the demographics. It just adds a certain feel to the game. I love it when I find out that I only have the second biggest pop., so I have to work really hard to get that number one pop again. It kind of gives me motivation to be number one in all categories. There needs to be a more extensive demographics and top five x.

	25-07-2001 02:51									#7
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Big Crunch I agree with you, but you don't want to be overloaded with stats.

Which is why I said that people could have the option to turn the stats off...or mix and match for that matter..

	25-07-2001 03:38									#8
	Remove this text

I'm not proposing pop-ups or something similar, I'm proposing data reports, as there's the current demographics screen in civ2 but including a much wider range of data.

If you don't want to view such reports, then simply don't it.

Techwings, another thread won't harm I suppose?

	25-07-2001 03:55									#9
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by TechWins I want to be bormaded with stats from the demographics

darn right!!

i want as many statistics the championship manager series have. and more!

	25-07-2001 04:35									#10
	Increase the size of your Attachments

The "ledger" in Europa Universalis sets new standards for presenting tons of statistical goodies in the game, 30 or 40 screens IIRC. I hope the Civ 3 people take a look at that and match or improve it.

	25-07-2001 04:38									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Excellent idea! Not to mention it feels good to know that I am not the only stat-freak on the planet! Kautilya's right the EU ledger is simply sublime...

	25-07-2001 05:06									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I'm not so much interested in statistics inside the game as OUTSIDE the game. Can stats for various civs be logged in a file that can be imported into excel or another program? Program's like Civ always have some sort of debug mode so that means they should be able to log the gameinfo.

That's what I would like to see.

	25-07-2001 05:32									#13
	Remove this text

whats IIRC stand for?

thanks in advance.

	25-07-2001 05:33									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I cant seem to find the Palestines on the CIA list, are they not recognized by the U.S?

	25-07-2001 06:01									#15
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by UberKruX whats IIRC stand for?

If I Recall Correctly

	25-07-2001 06:02									#16
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quote: Originally posted by UberKruX whats IIRC stand for? thanks in advance.

IIRC="If I recall Correctly"

you're welcome in advance (or would that be retrospect?)...

	25-07-2001 11:47									#17
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I liked the "Top 5 Cities." I hope they keep that.

SimCity 2000 was good with statistics. You had lots of them if you knew where to look. You would usually not look at them and indeed some were completely irrelevant and/or pointless, but in certain circumstances tey would really come in handy.

	25-07-2001 15:59									#18
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Here's another stats freak!
I want stats, graphs and maps of literally everything. It is always one of my favourite moments in a game: sitting back with a cup of tea, and just browsing through the stats of my empire/city/footy team. It helps me to identify myself with the game.
I know that most people couldn't care less about statistics - - but then, why would the adding of some stats under a pull-down menu for us freaks to gaze at all night harm anyone?

	25-07-2001 16:09									#19
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Wille,
"I cant seem to find the Palestines on the CIA list, are they not recognized by the U.S?"

What you refer to as Palestine (ie: the West Bank and the Gaza strip) isn't recognised as an independent nation by anyone and they have never declared independence either.
Most of what historically was Palestine now consists of Israel, the West Bank is formally a part of Jordan and the Gaza strip is formally a part of Egypt although they're both occupied by Israel.

	25-07-2001 16:13									#20
	Got spare money?

I'd love lots of stats, particualrly if you got bonuses for having the best educated civilisation and stuff but basically just for fun. However I'm a little concerned that after orifinal announcements that certain goodie screens like the history replay would be making a comeback nothing more has been said. While resources etc may be meing beta-tweaked it should not be impossible to announce by now whether the palace/throne room was in game in some form. Only having the city view to chat about gets boring

	25-07-2001 16:14									#21
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Well, more stat freaks here. And as many people say, it doesn't harm anyone if it is in a separate menu. If you don't like it, don't look!

The only problem may be that it gives away information. So in MP people can may be benefit from it?

	25-07-2001 16:29									#22
	Support Apolyton

"I want stats, graphs and maps of literally everything. It is always one of my favourite moments in a game: sitting back with a cup of tea, and just browsing through the stats of my empire/city/footy team. It helps me to identify myself with the game."

Exactly. From time to time I just want to stop playing and just see what I've build, and statistics hugely enhance that experience.

	25-07-2001 16:29									#23
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by campmajor! Well, more stat freaks here. And as many people say, it doesn't harm anyone if it is in a separate menu. If you don't like it, don't look! The only problem may be that it gives away information. So in MP people can may be benefit from it?

Any stats should only compare with nations you have embassies or alliances with, except basics like which cities have wonders of the world.

	25-07-2001 16:49									#24
	Tired of ads?

Good idea, but what about top 5 cities? Just leave the ones out of civs you dont't have an embassy with?

	25-07-2001 16:49									#25
	Remove this text

Give me a mountain of stats and I'll climb it.

	25-07-2001 18:55									#26
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I'll beat you to the top and then push you off...

	25-07-2001 19:15									#27
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Grumbold Any stats should only compare with nations you have embassies or alliances with, except basics like which cities have wonders of the world.

hopefully not only in MP but also in SP, the stats shouldnt reveal information you wouldnt or coulndnt possibly know.

I hope the stupid little popups also go, the ones that say "you are the 3rd richest in world" when you havent even met anyone yet...

Increase the stats by all means (I love them too) but make sure they dont give anything away. Even the knowledge of wonders or top 5 citys is too much. Why should i be told the Carthos are building a Wonder or completed it, it might influence where my armies head... Once i find carthos and exchange embassies then fine tell me all that...

	25-07-2001 22:58									#28
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I look at that basic information 'leak' as being part of living in a real world where communication did exist. It doesn't make sense for someone in South America to know about the Pyramids being built in Egypt, but it does make sense for tales to spread all around Eurasia and Africa. Trade and traders were always looking for profit and spreading news, even between warring nations. That it is always accurate, happens instantly and cancels any identical project you are working on is part of the game mechanics. That is the price you pay for having something like "Pyramids" be a game bonus open to any race that discovers a tech advance rather than a huge drain on Empire resources undertaken for religious or prestige reasons.

	25-07-2001 23:02									#29
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If everybody could build pyramids, there wouldn't be any point.

	25-07-2001 23:10									#30
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by death_head If everybody could build pyramids, there wouldn't be any point.

why not, in terms of the game , would be good if all could build the same wonders , i like to play no wonders because it makes it more fair, but maybe if there was a way to make all wonders avaialble to all not just one it could be fun too.

quote: I look at that basic information 'leak' as being part of living in a real world where communication did exist. It doesn't make sense for someone in South America to know about the Pyramids being built in Egypt, but it does make sense for tales to spread all around Eurasia and Africa. Trade and traders were always looking for profit and spreading news, even between warring nations.

this would be ok , but you can get information without any contact, the game has its own trade system built in, so the idea of traders passing information doesnt set with caravans in game. i think till you make some form of contact no info should be given....