26-07-2001 19:52									#1
	TheSims.com or SimCity.com Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

THE place for the latest info from Firaxis! If you wonder where the Civ 3 site is, it's probably being uploaded to a Maxis server as we speak! And in case you wonder what I'm talking about, Sid's chat is being hosted by those two sites, which leads to the natural conclusion that Civ 3's chat will follow there soon!

LONG LIVE SIM MEIER AND FIRmAXIS!

Now Markos: The point here is that Sim Golf is killing Civ 3. Killing its spotlight. Killing the number of people who could be working on it. We can blow smoke and say: "Well, only a certain number of programmers and artists can work on one game at time anyway," but we all KNOW this doesn't apply to a group of under 50 people. We can also say, "Hey, Sid can do whatever he wants." Well, that's true.

So, does this thread belong in the Other Games section? In a way. But if you ask me, Civ 3 is ALL about Sim Golf at this point.

	26-07-2001 19:59									#2
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quote: During the presentation, Meier will be describing his new game, Sid Meier's SimGolf, as he's playing it.

"I've just added some shrubbery and two sheep. The golfers can't seem to get enough!"

Ladies and Gentlemen: Those shrubbery and sheep are our most bitter enemies. Ban the bushes and the baaa!

	26-07-2001 19:59									#3
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Is SidGolf.com up yet?

	26-07-2001 20:02									#4
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So perhaps we should all go and monopolise the chat with Civ questions

After the first ten Civ questions have been squashed and they order anyone not interested in SimGolf to leave, perhaps the sight of half their audience dropping out might get the message across.

	26-07-2001 20:02									#5
	Tired of ads?

Not sure, but Markos is gonna move this thread for sure. Markos: We gotta have AT LEAST one thread about this issue over here at Civ 3 since it's all we've got to talk about coming from Firaxis!

	26-07-2001 20:05									#6
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Grumbold:

Absolutely WONDERFUL idea!!! But the thought of Sim Meier weeping is too much for me. Ah, hell. The guy has earned his right to make a tiny golf game about tiny people...I hope you can all see the turmoil this has put me in.

That chat might as well be about Sim Meier's Sim Barbie for all the pain this is inflicting on me.

	26-07-2001 21:28									#7
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Sim Barbie?

	26-07-2001 21:39									#8
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I've deceided to become on optimist for Civ3.
(Yin: Look and learn - It's not that hard. )


So now I say like this.
I do hope SidGolf/SidBarbie game will take all personell from the company to finnish. This way releasing Civ3 this year becomes even less likely, thus giving FIRAXIS time to gather a BETA-time and utilize it effeciently. (Just like Blissard announsed lately)

OK,now I must go spread good feelings somewere else...

	26-07-2001 22:45									#9
	Re: TheSims.com or SimCity.com Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by yin26 The point here is that Sim Golf is killing Civ 3. Killing its spotlight. Killing the number of people who could be working on it

sorry yin, but that's total BS. if the simgolf firaxians werent working on simgolf, they would be working on dinosaurs.

also, you have really no idea whether or not firaxis was planning for a fall release for civ3 and if the decision fir simgolf hurt civ3 in any way.

finally, it is known from the start that firaxis was always working on 2 games at the same time. initially the secondary team was smaller(work on dinos had started while the rest of the team worked on smac) but with all the hirings it is obvious that they are trying to be able to have 2 equal teams working in full development.

so, to say it once more, the whole "simgolf is hurting civ3" is BS(imho)

	27-07-2001 01:15									#10
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True that Mark...
With your fame in these message boards you've built yourself a very high platform Mr. Yin. In most posts, you either create abstract informtion to critize Civ3. Or use facts to critize Civ3 aspects. This is good because it helps to construct a better game. Although it seems as though it is falling on deaf ears. But this time you sound like an old man complaining that your back hurts, kids dont respect their elders anymore and you social security is getting eat up on all the little punks...
well, i just think that you shouldn't waste your time on little things like this.. instead, use the time to start a new hobby
or create more concrete posts that arent about your personal problems...

(this post is in the tone of all due respect... it was a very hard post to make without making it sound like a flame... so please excuse any part that might sound flame-ishy)

-your loyal Chieftan,
To_Serve_man

	27-07-2001 02:22									#11
	Yin!! Full PM-box? Change here!

don't even mention Sim barbie! they'll go off and do it. do you want to regret the fact that you put sim golf into sid's head even more?

	27-07-2001 03:01									#12
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I'm in the chat right now. I think they're screening the questions before they pop up on the screen, so no bombarding will really be possible.

	27-07-2001 03:45									#13
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i'm watching too, yeah, they're screening questions, but its not stopping me. someone had the gall to ask who sid was. the barbarians...

	27-07-2001 03:50									#14
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Yin is right !

I'm going to sue Peugeot for the same grounds, since they're not only working on my new 307 cabrio !
Those bastards are working on the new 407 as well, not to mention the 107 that's being designed by them right now !

I hate them !

go Yin !

	27-07-2001 03:51									#15
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i told people this would happen, sid just said that there are civ buildings included in sim golf. the question is what golf things are in civ3?

	27-07-2001 03:55									#16
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quote: sorry yin, but that's total BS. if the simgolf firaxians werent working on simgolf, they would be working on dinosaurs.

Oh lord. True. Then I'd cry about Dinos! I realize they seem determined to spilt up their people. But you say that ISN'T hurting the games. I disagree. If they were working ONLY on Civ 3, for example, Dan couldn't use his excuse for not updating the website: "We are currently working on TWO games" blah blah blah. Now apply THAT b.s. across the company...Not sure, but how many gaming companies take their relatively small group and even DARE to work on two games at once? A game and an x-pack is o.k., but two completely different games at once, both in roughly the same stage of development?

Markos, that's just a bad idea. C'mon. I know I overstate it a bit, but it's a bad idea. However, if this is going to be the way they run things, I'll kindly find fun and interesting ways to question it.

quote: But this time you sound like an old man complaining that your back hurts, kids dont respect their elders anymore and you social security is getting eat up on all the little punks...

This is also true. I freely admit that I am pouting fruitlessly in this thread. I hope everybody can forgive me that I so openly am kicking and screaming here. The thought of a Sim Golf chat just pushed me over the psychological edge, I guess, considering we're like in a Civ 3 information desert.

From now on, I will do my absolute best to totally ignore Sim Golf...or if I mention it, it will be a constructively kicking and screaming sort of way.

quote: I do hope SidGolf/SidBarbie game will take all personell from the company to finnish. This way releasing Civ3 this year becomes even less likely, thus giving FIRAXIS time to gather a BETA-time and utilize it effeciently.

Wow. Excellent point! Did anybody get on that chat and demand a new cutting edge 3D graphics engine and cutting edge golfer A.I.? If not, we should...and FAST!

quote: Don't even mention Sim barbie! they'll go off and do it. do you want to regret the fact that you put sim golf into sid's head even more?

That would be the end of me. If Sim Barbie (or anything like it) comes out of Firaxis, I'm quitting the computer gaming business. (Oh man, that just gave them more incentive, I'm afraid)

quote: I think they're screening the questions before they pop up on the screen, so no bombarding will really be possible.

But 3D graphics engine and AI questions would be great!

	27-07-2001 03:59									#17
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quote: Originally posted by yin26 I realize they seem determined to spilt up their people. But you say that ISN'T hurting the games. I disagree. If there were working ONLY on Civ 3, for example, Dan couldn't

if they had the same number of people and were working only on civ3 they would have to close cause there is that little rule about companies and income having to be more than expenses....

	27-07-2001 04:04									#18
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quote: if they had the same number of people and were working only on civ3 they would have to close cause there is that little rule about companies and income having to be more than expenses....

The wouldn't close. They'd say: "Hey, we over-hired. Now we have a choice--Work on two games at once and HOPEFULLY cover expenses or scale back, stay focussed, and keep expenses much lower...oh, and actually use our Web Wizard to do Web stuff."

Markos: It's classic "The small company let its own growth kill itself." I can already read the Gaming Graveyard story at Gamespot.

	27-07-2001 04:08									#19
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Also, by "scale back" at this point would require that they fire some people, which I think they should do. If as a small company you find yourself with so many staff that you HAVE to work on two totally unrelated games at once to turn a profit, you are killing youself.

You could make the same profit with much better focus and management with half the people working to make a much better ONE game.

	27-07-2001 04:13									#20
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yin, they have been having this 2-games model since day #1. why you think that they will fail now that they seem to have reached their goal of having 2 teams in full production escapes me....
(please dont tell me that the reason is that their site is unupdated)


btw, strategy and managment games are not far away. certainly closer than strategy and shoot-em-up.....

	27-07-2001 04:21									#21
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It is my understanding that the development of Gettyburg! and SMAC were spaced far apart enough that they weren't fighting for programmers and such. I don't really count the x-packs in this discussion.

By the way, do you know how many games Blizzard is working on and with how many staff? It's an honest question.

	27-07-2001 04:26									#22
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at the time of gettysburg and smac they didnt have the same amount of employees


i dont know about blizzard....

	27-07-2001 10:08									#23
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I was there for the first 10-15 minutes and asked a question but am not sure if it was answered.

could someone tell me what went on afterward

Sid said that SimGolf was coming out in october so maybe Civ3 will come out later

Jon Miller

	27-07-2001 10:09									#24
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quote: Originally posted by yin26 It is my understanding that the development of Gettyburg! and SMAC were spaced far apart enough that they weren't fighting for programmers and such. I don't really count the x-packs in this discussion. By the way, do you know how many games Blizzard is working on and with how many staff? It's an honest question.

It is my understanding that Firaxis was founded on the notion that they would always be working on two games. Sid would work on one and Brian another. They would release games every year alternating between the two. They expected to hire enough people to cover two games in developement at the same time. And that is what Firaxis is doing.

Besides, it should be obvious that Sim Golf is coming out this fall. And Civ III in the Spring. Hard to believe two games are at the exact same place in developement at the same time. So that means staggered releases.


As for Blizzard, the company has over 150 designers, producers, programmers, artists and sound engineers. And of course they are always looking to add people. For what games they are working on, well earlier this year they released a StarCraft patch, so someone is still looking at that. They obviously are still patching/working on Diablo II and the expansion pack.

As for what new games they are working on, I read somewhere that during construction of the Diablo II expansion pack they were working on three projects. One being the Diablo II expansion pack. The other two being WarCraft III and an unnamed/undisclosed title. I cannot confirm this tidbit, but I believe that it probably is true. 150 employees have to be doing something.

	27-07-2001 10:12									#25
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Oh and another thing. This web chat might be a preview of what is in store for Civ III. I personally can't wait to have Sid and Jeff talk to us all about how great Civ III really is. Show us around, give us new screen shots, and the works. That would be great publicity for the game about a month and a half before it comes out.

Hopefully, the limit won't be 300 however.

	27-07-2001 10:22									#26
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quote: And Civ III in the Spring.

Do you know something we don't? Of course, I'm pretty sure that's what WILL happen, so why make an ad saying COMING OCTOBER 2001? Makes no sense.

	27-07-2001 11:09									#27
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quote: Originally posted by yin26 Do you know something we don't? Of course, I'm pretty sure that's what WILL happen, so why make an ad saying COMING OCTOBER 2001? Makes no sense.

As for inside information, I could only wish.

I have stated this opinion on the ad thread, but basically an ad has to be put in to the magazine soon enough that it could be published. Now lets say that during this whole purchasing of Hasbro by Infogames, the word is Civ III in October. But Firaxis is behind because they are trying to make a great game.

Infogrames trying to combine companies and doing all that work says, hey civ is a great series to have and there is a sequel coming out. We should think about advertising. They create a website and an ad. Now the guys from Firaxis say, hey were not going to be ready in time. Infogrames says great, get it done as soon as you can.

The problem is that the ad is already printed. This printing happens before Infogrames takes the website date off line. So the ad is already made and then the game is delayed. Not the first time that is happened in the gaming community.

	27-07-2001 11:12									#28
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hey yin did you know that sid's handle on the chat last night was "maxissid"?


yin runs away screaming

	27-07-2001 11:33									#29
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tniem: Makes sense, of course, but I wonder why October was EVER on the table?!

Markos: !!! He should stick with my idea of "Sim Meier." Much better.

	27-07-2001 11:49									#30
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Yin, the Sim Meir is pretty funny. I think Firaxis should have taken this game (Civ3) at full force. They should have used all their man power, wait maybe I should say human power to be politically correct. If they would have been only doing one project (Civ3) the game would have been able to be very succesful (it still might be) and been out for release by Christmas time. The game will be succesful but it won't be (hopefully) released until some time next year.

Not to mention that I don't think Sim Golf sounds very exciting. I'm not being biased either because I happen to like a lot of Sim games. A way to make this game a lot better is for you to be able to design your course then be able to play on it like you are able to on most golf games. Now that woul be exciting.