26-07-2001 19:58									#1
	Preventing Probes Tired of ads?

I just recently started playing again after months of not playing so I forgot some of the strategies. I'm playing a game on Transcend difficulty and was winning it well into midgame until the Pirates started taking over my bases with probe teams. (IMHO way overpowered - they waltzed in and took a huge base with 3 wonders in it with a single probe team dropped on the coast all in one turn). Other than surrounding your base so they can't physically get to it is there a defense against this? I know about the H/S Alg that helps against probes but I got beat making it this game. Thanks in advance for any help on the matter.

	26-07-2001 20:21									#2
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Probes in your base defend against attacking probes. BTW, Hunter-Seeker doesn't just help against probes, it completely neutralizes them.

	26-07-2001 20:24									#3
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Only in SMAC. In SMAC/X, if the probe team in question has the Algorythimic (however it's spelled, lol) enhancement, the HSA is pretty much useless. Just send in 3 or 4 probes with the enhancement, your base is toast. Just stick a defensive probe or two in there, that will help.

	26-07-2001 20:27									#4
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Keep 2 of your own probes on alert in all of your bases to fend off enemy probes. 2 in each base also allows backup units for nearby bases under attack. Probes dont count against you for support minerals either. Then you can buy enemy unit also when your bases are under attack.

	26-07-2001 20:55									#5
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Thanks guys... quick question about the defensive probes. Do they need to be sentried(L) or held(H) specifically or doesn't it matter? Thanks for the quick replies. I love this forum!

	26-07-2001 21:12									#6
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At least in SMAC, it doesn't matter; the probe just has to be in the base. If that changed in SMACX, someone else will have to tell you.

	26-07-2001 21:35									#7
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Nope, it's the same in smacx as in smac. Doesn't make a bit of difference. Just setting it on alert wakes it up whenever ANYTHING gets close enough. Wish I could use one on needletjets.

	26-07-2001 21:39									#8
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I always set it on alert 'cause sometimes the enemy probe will run out of moves right next to your base. Then your probe will attack automatically. It usually better to attack 1st to win.

	26-07-2001 21:42									#9
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If the enemy probe stops right next to your base, isn't it better to attack it with some other unit that's in the base (I assume you aren't defending it with just probes)? It's an automatic win, whereas you could lose a probe-vs.-probe battle.

	26-07-2001 21:46									#10
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well, thats just to easy and obvious .....

	26-07-2001 21:47									#11
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Rex, yep. Unless you have an infantry based probe in your base (if you have a regular military unit, that probe isn't doing much good being armored anyways), wipe it out.

If you have an infantry based probe in the base (only use armored infantry probes alone... if you lump it with a military unit, it's worthless as an armored unit...), use a rover or other such unit to take it out.

By the same token, if you use an interlocking defense (read Vel's postings on "creating synergy..." elsewhere around here), you should be able to get that probe before it even gets to one of your cities. If it pops up outta nowhere, chuck it out the door the hard way.

	27-07-2001 01:21									#12
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ha ha ha! my bases are immune! i'm the pirates and the AI doesn't use sea probes!

also whilst we're on the topic of probes, howcome the AI probes don't have the little coloured square on them like the rest of the units that tells you what faction they are. ever since i got smac v/4.0 i havn't seen square things on any probes other than my own. same with smax v/2.0.

and on a completely unrelated topic(well almost completely) in the scenario with santiago yang and miriam where you have to kill yang as santiago, the native life and probes are screwed up. as in the images are different. e.g. the locusts are just grey swirls.

	27-07-2001 01:30									#13
	Got spare money?

Try MP for some challenge. Pirates = easy victory in AI games. Not that it's your fault. AI is stupid anyway.

And don't worry about unflagged probes. That's how it's suppose to be, at least, according to Firaxis, and I agree. Probes usually don't wear flags indicating their ideological commitment while in covert operations.

	27-07-2001 03:47									#14
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Other probe basics:

For defensive probes, go to the design workshop and whip up a single movement probe to save some build time or cost.

If unaccompanied by a probe team, make sure that your attacking force is always stacked to prevent subversion.

Your HQ cannot be subverted. Something to think about when you start building wonders and don't yet have defensive probes.

AI probe teams tend to follow certain paths. Part of the battle is to figure out where they will most likely come from.

Sensor arrays and a conventional unit with a rover chassis or faster will round out your defense. No sense risking a probe to probe battle if you don't have to.

In SMACX, in theory the HSA doesn't provide complete protection by late game. In practice, in my experience the AI will not subvert you even if it does get the tech for algorithmic enhancement. No reason that the AI should get that far in the tech tree unless you are feeding them the tech anyhow.

	27-07-2001 15:16									#15
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quote: For defensive probes, go to the design workshop and whip up a single movement probe to save some build time...

Considering the attack is the best defense I'm not sure how well would this work. When probing invading enemy units, or probes incase you don't have possibility to use conventional units those movement points come into use.

This could be a good deal in the very early game when even building a probe takes forever and you have little chance to make an offense with the probes having no established transportation system or elite units. I still don't see much application in AI game unless you are seriously dangered by Datajack, in MP game this could work well.

	27-07-2001 23:04									#16
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quote: Originally posted by EtheMind And don't worry about unflagged probes. That's how it's suppose to be, at least, according to Firaxis, and I agree. Probes usually don't wear flags indicating their ideological commitment while in covert operations.

If you right click on the sqaure and select info about square it will tell you who it belongs to.

	28-07-2001 00:59									#17
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EtheMind -- You're right, the probe on the infantry chassis is simply used to save time, minerals, and energy. It allows for the exact same defensive characteristics minus the ability to move far, but on an offensive mission they suffer the set back of only moving one tile a turn. I tend to build them in coastal bases that I feel have a greater chance of being probed by an exploring probe foil. For the cost of one probe foil you can get two infantry chassis probes that should provide adaquete defense. They're alos nice to rush build in newly captured bases so that the enemy doesn't just probe the base and all your units out from under you.

	28-07-2001 02:15									#18
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quote: If you right click on the sqaure and select info about square it will tell you who it belongs to

I know. Guess they aren't as smart as they think they are

quote: They're alos nice to rush build in newly captured bases so that the enemy doesn't just probe the base and all your units out from under you.

Well, that's a real application. Probe teams aren't that cheap, especially in the early game. Offensive probing against newly taken base is a serious threat even when playing against AI.

	30-07-2001 07:07									#19
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I gather that infantry probe teams become useful in conjunction with armor.

Take a look at Sikander and Ogie's comments in a thread called:
"Armored Probe Teams Revisited"

You can get their via:
http://apolyton.net/forums/search.p...rder=descending

	31-07-2001 03:33									#20
	Remove this text

Having visited the preferred address I can admit that I never came to thought that armor and probes would make good friends. But now it looks like one of the most essential base defense techniques for any faction.