27-07-2001 01:03									#1
	Give me your honest opinion Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I Have only ever played civ 1
When civ 2 came out I was 11 and not interested in these types of games. But now i'm a college going 16 year old and I love Civ and all strategy games, which leads to lighthearted slagging by my friends who only like a game for its blood lust appeal. You know 'bang bang, run into a room, shoot everything in sight, next room same thing boom boom'
Very little skill involved, I do play these games but not to the extent of my friends. Goldeneye was cool and Half-life.
Anyway since I have only played civ 1 I really need to play an up to date civ game, do you recommend CTP 2. I saw it for £9.99 in HMV the other day, but thought no don't gat it people say its sh1t. But now i'm talking to the people that play it, so is it worth it.
Oh and I will be getting Civ 3 any way but I don't believe it will be out before march 2002

Plz help I'm Civ deprived

	27-07-2001 03:48									#2
	Got spare money?

Honestly, if you are civ deprived, CTP1 or 2 would be worth a tenner.

	27-07-2001 05:43									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Yeah,I would say it's worth it for that price...............mind you,some stores are still charging £29.99 for CTP2 in Britain which I say is a bloody rip-off.

	27-07-2001 12:48									#4
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Download and install the Medieval Pack 2 from Wes' page and CTP 2 becomes a really good game!

I'm absolutely addicted to it!

	27-07-2001 17:53									#5
	Remove this text

I'd have to agree - CTP2 (as released) had a lot of potential, and the Mods take it 90% there. I really enjoy a chance to build my empire and see it exist if color and animation, and not have to get attacked by the same races with the same ferocity every game.

Best things about CTP2 are the improvements over the Civ game. For me, the big two were...

(a) The maps are far better - I HATED those stringy continents. Here, the map functions allow for much better creation.

(b) Far better mechanics. Public Works and Trading are far superior to what we had in Civ.

I'm quite happy with CTP2 bolstered by the MedMods.

	27-07-2001 18:04									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I think that with the MedPack2 CTP2 is now the best Civ game to date, and from the looks of how things are going with Civ3 I would be cautious about jumping to conclusions with it. I mean i am sure it will be a great game, but don't assume that it will be the best just because it has Sid's name on the box.

	27-07-2001 18:59									#7
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Buy CTP2 at once and get the Medmod or the Apolyton Pack!!!
It is the best civ game currently (when modded of course) and probably will be better than civ3 (have you seen the last screenshots and how desanimous the civ3 community is?). If you regret i swear i change my nick to Donna.

Last edited by Pedrunn on 27-07-2001 at 22:40

	27-07-2001 21:01									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

MedPack2 put emphasis on on the middle age, if you don't want so much changes try the ApollytonPack or if you like rather the acient age than the medieval age try Craddle.

And for Civ3 I am not very interesting maybe until the game is out. I think Sid won't give it to the fans to finish his game. But so far as I know he won't kick out terrain improving settlers. It was just a headache to move hundrets of settlers only for the sake of building terrain improvements. I am afrait that you can also move carravans again, taht was also a pain in Civ2. But we will see and I don't know so much about (Civ3 maybe fortunatly).

-Martin

	28-07-2001 09:15									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I've tried MedPack2 and agree that it improves the game three fold. First time I played the game with it installed, Barbarians went sick with 12 stack armies roaming the lands capturing cities at will.

I haven't tried the Cradle Pack yet, what are the major differences, if any?

	28-07-2001 10:45									#10
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Craddle is a Ancient centered mod. All of its changes are at the first ages. Many new types of ancient govs, units and advances.
The game starts at 7000BC and the AI is even more agressive then medmod.

	01-08-2001 01:26									#11
	How about Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

My favorite Civ-type themes are the colonization of America (or something like it), and "Imperialism"-like, 19th century worldwide or Europe-wide stuff. Civ1 and 2 are pretty bad at these (AI doesn't like colonizing very much, and likes to conquer Indian cities before building any new ones). Do you think either CTP could do better at this?

Miznia

	02-08-2001 10:16									#12
	Increase the size of your Attachments

buy civ2 or Europa Universialis, ctp HAS to be modded. they dont. ask in there forums and youll get what you pay for, not crap to play-ctp waste of money. civ2 (or wait for 3) are much better, this communityis obviusly bias, dont make my mistake!!

	02-08-2001 17:04									#13
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Delete

Last edited by Pedrunn on 02-08-2001 at 17:33

	02-08-2001 17:39									#14
	Got spare money?

quote: ctp HAS to be modded

But when it is, it kicks seven kinds of sh!t out of Civ2. This community may be biased, but everyone who has had one bad experience with CTP2, not modded it, and wasted their own money is probably more so.
The reason I stuck with CTP2 was because I had paid my money, and was not willing to see it wasted. If that means it was part of a large time/money investment to help improve the game, then so be it, but CTP2 is worth it for the low prices it should be now.

	02-08-2001 17:46									#15
	Got spare money?

...further, CTP2 has (IMHO) a better interface, and better rules in PW and Tile Improvements. I'd love to enjoy Civ2 or TOT, but frankly, I keep drifting back to CTP2.

I just love the game - Wes's mods really boost this thing to the point where its quite a lot of fun to play. If you like Civ2, then play Civ2. Heck, given the price of both, you can sample the two and decide what plays best for you.

	02-08-2001 20:54									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Bluevoss ...further, CTP2 has (IMHO) a better interface, and better rules in PW and Tile Improvements. I'd love to enjoy Civ2 or TOT, but frankly, I keep drifting back to CTP2. I just love the game - Wes's mods really boost this thing to the point where its quite a lot of fun to play. If you like Civ2, then play Civ2. Heck, given the price of both, you can sample the two and decide what plays best for you.

DONT, I REPEAT DONT, BUY CTP. if you do you will find out that this man is WRONG.

interface=soooooo messy, vertualy unusable.
rules=retarded
pw=stupid and tedius

wes's mod is great but who want to buy a game that has to be modded, mods should be for more fun, not to make the game work! if you dont beleive me then look at the 2 forums in comparison to civ 2's 5-6, i rest my case!

	02-08-2001 21:01									#17
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by splangy buy civ2 or Europa Universialis, ctp HAS to be modded. they dont. ask in there forums and youll get what you pay for, not crap to play-ctp waste of money. civ2 (or wait for 3) are much better, this communityis obviusly bias, dont make my mistake!!

Hey, I plunked down $30 for this 'so-called' piece of @#$%...

It was the best $30 spent - and I FREELY admit that CTP2 out of the box needed a lot of work.

It was a challange to get into the files and figure out what to do - but there was a host of people in this 'biased community' here who gave advice, playtested and made suggestions.

And I thoroughly enjoyed the challenge of creating something out of what was there - I believe that the effort paid off for an enjoyable and VERY challenging gaming experience. Big deal - so I had to do the work myself. I can look at any game and see the need to modify something. And before you go off on the aspect of the amount of work that was needed to modify the AI, that aspect actually constitituted a rather small amout of time in my modwork - a few placed tweaks was all that was needed. The bulk of the work was in addition of new units/techs/wonders and getting all of that info to tie together smoothly - and is not AI related

What I find funny is some of the discussion in the CIV3 threads - people blast the CTP series and then in the same breath praise Firaxis for many of the revolutionary concepts that have been a part of the CTP series in the first place.

I fully expect that CIV3 wil be a good game - but revolutionary...I'm not about to hold my breath on that. I fully expect that the so-called Deity level players will be griping soon after it is released on how easy it is to beat after a few games.

	02-08-2001 21:08									#18
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by splangy interface=soooooo messy, vertualy unusable. rules=retarded pw=stupid and tedius

All personal preference issues. I REALLY like marching around a slew of settlers to make tile improvemnts

Interface is also a preference issue. I prefer the CTP1-CT2 interface over the SMAC series, which is based on the CIV2 one.

And how are the rules retarded??? Specifics please...

	02-08-2001 22:18									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Well, I was pretty pissed myself with the first release of CTP2. I hung out here for a while, didn't see the mods getting anyplace fast, and left.

I came back a year later to find the MedMod out. It took 2-3 hours of download to get it all, but it plugged in with little hassle, and pretty much made CTP2 the game I wanted.

Is it right that Activision dumped an incomplete game onto the market? No. But if people have moded it and its a fun game, then whats the problem with that? If you like to play CTP2, play it. If you like Civ, play it. Like I said, in my opinion, I enjoy the interface and the rule enhancements.

Its just a game. Whatever.

	02-08-2001 22:31									#20
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by splangy civ2 (or wait for 3) are much better,

Civ2 much better?? obsolete graphics, timevasting caravan sytem, timewasting system of placeing tileimprovements?

I needed more than an hour to move all units: settlers, caravans and some military units. Caravans are one type of them and as I tried to used the goto order. They didn't used railraod. And as I wanted with the goto order that my unit goes from the far east to the far west. It used the long way.

I like cities and I like to found them. So as I tried to found another one it says to me: Too many cities. I think that was the 255th city on that map. In CTP1 I went far beyond that limit. So I compare CTP1 with Civ2 in that point and I have to ask, what is better a game that gives you a limit of 255 or a limit that is higher and depends on the ressources of your system probably?

In my Civ2 games I had armies of settlers just for the sake of tile improving. Settling here and settling there 200 hundrets of them 300 hundrets of. I wasted hours just to move them from one tile to another tile. So what is better a system that depents of hundrets of military units just to improve tiles or a system that used a part of the production to build all kinds of infrastructure around the cities.

I recently started a Civ2 game and the graphics just looks bad in comparison to CTP1/2.

Now interface what's better of an interface that forces you to cycle through every of your 200 cities just to tell the city what it should build next turn? You can tell a city what it should build when for example a unit is complete or a building. That's one reason why I was bored by the Civ2 city screen, no way around it and time wasting. And for the interface we are talking about CTP2 and not about CivCTP.

And CTP2 can be more modded than Civ2 or can you make play a tile improvement sound in Civ2 when a settler creates an tile improvement. They just forgot to implement this feature but it was possible to do it without changing the ctp2.exe it this possible in Civ2. And what's about the diplomacy Dale was able to improve it a lot. For Civ2 diplomacy I find it very unrealistic that if I am in democracy I have to sign a peace treaty if I just conquered an enemy city.

So for the rhules I can only quote hexagonian:

quote: And how are the rules retarded??? Specifics please...

I think that's not only true in that issure, but that't also true for your other statements. It is not a reason to tell someone not to buy, because it is cr.../bad. You have to tell us why it is bad. But it is also not a reason that it is bad because PW is stupid and tedius, the interface is soooooo messy, vertualy unusable and the rhules are retarded. That are also no explained reasons only assertions, because the why is missing. That could be one example.

	03-08-2001 00:43									#21
	Got spare money?

What do the CTP2 mods fix, generally? Is it mainly the AI?

	03-08-2001 00:45									#22
	Suffering from ads?

1) What is the problem with Mods? Like you said thy are ther to add fun and that is the exacly what they are doing. They added so much fun to CTP2 that it became the best game up-to-date and the way i see things going it will cotinue being for some years more. Did you play CTP2 modded anyway. Looks like you did not or you were here with us defending it.

2) PW Tedious? I remember a poll when i was part of the civ3 community that was to choose wich one was the better: Settlers or PWs and guess what it was almost 50/50. And became the discussion of the moment. So, you may think it bad but you have to admit that is polemic and a matter of choice.

3) rules retarded. Wich ones? Most of it is like civ2.

4) So there are more peopke playing civ2. So what? The problem is just that some people dont know how good CTP2 is modded. And the civ3 comming is kind of calling people back to civ2. Not to mention that almost every turn-based veteran has it. Civ2 was the one that call me to this Strategy Genre also. But you have got to admit that the graphics are terrible compared to CTP2, the Trade is annoing and the lack of future age makes the game tedious.

5) Civ3? Do you know if it will be good (Have you seen the terrain , anyway)? Do you know when it will be released?
So do not recommend it!!!

	03-08-2001 01:12									#23
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Damn it. Sent twice. deleted too.

Last edited by Pedrunn on 03-08-2001 at 01:19

	03-08-2001 01:13									#24
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by Miznia What do the CTP2 mods fix, generally? Is it mainly the AI?

Fixes the AI, the pre-existent bugs, adds new units, new ages, new wonders, new city sprites, new advances, diplophotos, new governments and the best part new (and could i say revolutionary if better advertised) features like the Elite Units: special units you get by discovering a advance; or WonderUnits: do you want to play with Caesar or Alexander the great so build the wonder. (Sprangly you have got to admit those are much better then civ-specific units). Soon Natural disasters, pirates and more.

See why it has to be modded (to add the fun like sprangly said).

	03-08-2001 04:13									#25
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I've said it once, I've said it many times, and I'll say it again and again.

quote: I just LOVE having 200 settlers just to build roads between all my cities. NOT!

Public works. The single best feature of the CTP series.

	03-08-2001 06:51									#26
	Tired of ads?

I'm with you Dale on PW in the CTP series

	03-08-2001 12:44									#27
	Increase Your PM Length

The main reason for me to never restart Civ2 after playing CTP1 the first time was the ability to combine units to stacks and send them to battle as a whole army.

The Civ games were great, but the fact that every unit had to go to battle alone was terrible. And even more terrible was the destruction of all units on the same tile, when one of them got defeated by an attacker.

	03-08-2001 16:28									#28
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

The only time I play Civ2 now is OCC games, which I am very bad at anyway

	03-08-2001 18:06									#29
	Suffering from ads?

Stacked combat is definately cool in the CTP series.

Theres nothing like having a front row of tanks and infantry backed up by 4-5 artillery pieces to really bring an enemy town to it's knees. Now couple this stack with a stack of 3-4 bombers and you really have a powerful offensive force. The bombers prep the enemy city by bombing them a few rounds and then you bring in your combined arms stack to snatch the city away. Don't forget the fighter escort of course.

You could never fight wars like this in the old Civ series. At least not so efficiently as in CTP1 or CTP2.

	03-08-2001 18:27									#30
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I kind of forgot about stacked combat. Who tell me that civ2s one againt one combat is better than the CTP2s army againt army combat either is lunatic or a incredible strange person .