27-07-2001 07:09									#1
	The Official Apolyton Pessimistic Civers Club (OfAPeCiClu): Now Accepting Applicants! Full PM-box? Change here!

As president of the OfAPeCiClu, I was delighted a few moments ago to see H Tower asking to join. Of course, there are a number of members in spirit, but anybody wanting to officially join should please post your intentions here.

Of course, you might be wondering: "What are the goals and intentions of this club?" Well, I think our first step should be to make a VISION STATEMENT. From there, we can decide what, if any, activities we will undertake. I welcome the feedback of new members and offer a sample from which we might work:

The OfAPeCiClu VISION STATEMENT:

We, the members of the OfAPeCiClu, believe above all things that Civ 3 is truly "The People's Game." Therefore, be it through constructive criticism or earnest entreaty, we will seek at every turn to raise issues of concern in order that open discussions of Civ 3's development will remain of the highest priority both to the fans and to Firaxis. We do this NOT to detract from Civ 3's creation but, rather, to help guide it to the greatest possible success.

The OfAPeCiClu MOTTO: (also open to change)

Criticism is just optimism looking for the light at the end of the tunnel.

Definition of PESSIMISM:

1 : an inclination to emphasize adverse aspects, conditions, and possibilities or to expect the worst possible outcome. Now if you do that in order to help KEEP THE WORST from happening, then you are a big help of the game in my opinion. Add to that we WILL offer praise when we see stuff we like, and you can understand we are not empty bashers but concerned fans.

CURRENT MEMBERS: (joined date in D - M - Y TIME format)

A. Jeje2: 20-07-2001 18:06 (offered to join before the official announcement!)

1. H Tower: 27-07-2001 08:49
   
2. Rommel393: 27-07-2001 12:13
   
3. CivPatriot: 27-07-2001 12:17
   
4. MORON: 27-07-2001 12:19
   
5. tniem: 27-07-2001 15:42
   
6. Beckdawg: 27-07-2001 16:03
   
7. Grumbold: 27-07-2001 19:55
   
8. Slax: 27-07-2001 23:08 (EXACT same time as One More Turn!)
   
9. One More Turn!: 27-07-2001 23:08 (EXACT same time as Slax)
   
10. jglidewell: 28-07-2001 04:01
    
11. Zanzin: 28-07-2001 15:56
    
12. DarkCloud 29-07-2001 02:09
    
13. UberKruX: 29-07-2001 11:56
    
14. Simpleton: 29-07-2001 12:09
    

Last edited by yin26 on 29-07-2001 at 12:53

	27-07-2001 07:13									#2
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Let me be the first to join Yin! Though I am a natural optimist but I will forgoe my foolish ideals and join your nation of pessimists to make civ3 the greatest civ of all time. We will force firaxis to make a GOOD game through our sheer negativity!

Last edited by Rommel393 on 27-07-2001 at 07:47

	27-07-2001 07:16									#3
	Put an end to popups!

With your permission Yin I will but the motto and name of OfAPeCiClu to my signature.

Last edited by Rommel393 on 27-07-2001 at 07:57

	27-07-2001 07:17									#4
	I like this idea :b: Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

yun26, are infrequent posters allowed to join this great club? If so can I join?

	27-07-2001 07:19									#5
	Suffering from ads?

can lurking spammer join too?

	27-07-2001 07:21									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Welcome, Rommel! Yes, please update your sig if you like the motto. Of course, this ain't bad, either: "We will force firaxis to make a GOOD game through our sheer negativity!" LOL! Might be a bit too strong with 'force' and 'negativity,' but darn catchy.

CivPatriot and MORON: Not only are infrequent posters welcome, but I think they (and lurkers) represent a large portion of the Poly visitors. I'd be delighted to see them join in.

One thing I want to stress: This should NOT become and Anti-Firaxis movement that bashes and whines. Rather, a vocal movement that constructively keeps important topics on the table in the hopes they will not be forgotten.

	27-07-2001 07:33									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Excellent. Yin which should i put in my sig? The one about forcing firaxis through our negativity or the motto? Maybe all members should come up with their own personal mottos and your's (being the president) will be the official one. How bout that?

	27-07-2001 07:36									#8
	Tired of ads?

Sounds good. I only ask that you change the word 'force' to something like 'inspire.' Thanks!

	27-07-2001 07:38									#9
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Thanks yin26, even though you are no longer a mod your infulence in this Forum is still felt.


Hey, Friaxis is not perfect, but they are one of the best in the business, and its our job as gamers(and fans of Sid) to keep them that way by constructive criticism. May Civ3 be the best game in the world!!

	27-07-2001 07:42									#10
	Tired of ads?

Sounds good Yin. Although I liked force inspire isnt bad. I guess I'll use that unless I think of something better.

	27-07-2001 07:51									#11
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I only say that so we can keep a positive spin. Nobody likes to be forced to do anything, but if we can simply show our good intentions, we might see some results.

	27-07-2001 07:59									#12
	Inflate your Upload Space

Hey how do you like this Yin?

	27-07-2001 08:00									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I like inspire better. sounds less militant. I think that our first thread should be a poll to seperate this forum into General, Sugesstions, List(as if it is going to be used now).

Last edited by CivPatriot on 27-07-2001 at 08:13

	27-07-2001 08:09									#14
	Proud member Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

i am of course glad to be accepted into this fine establishment. Which motto did you finally decide upon? "We will inspire firaxis to make a GOOD game through our sheer negativity!" or
"Criticism is just optimism looking for the light at the end of the tunnel"
do we get a fancy description like yours or are we stuck with chieftan or warlord until we do something really spectacular?

I welcome Rommel393, CivPatriot, MORON as equals and hope that we may help firaxis to see the light and release Civ3 in october as a finished product with the greatest graphics and gameplay!

	27-07-2001 08:16									#15
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Rommel: Looks great! Funny and upbeat but with a point.

CivPatriot: I suppose we'll need to see how much support we get first. We might be all there is!...and then the flood of "You guys are whankers" could show up, so in a few days I think we'll have a better idea what we can do.

H Tower: I don't know about the motto. It's up to the group. When we get more members (if?), we'll open it up if we need to. Otherwise, as Rommel suggested, we could each have our own motto, or you chose one you like. The only thing is we shouldn't have mottos floating around we can't all agree on.

As for a title change:

MARKOS: Since you were so kind as to put that title on me in the first place (), I wonder if these great members can't have a title? If they want one, would you give them the opportunity?

	27-07-2001 08:21									#16
	Suffering from ads?

I dont think we should let too many more people join. A club, just like a gaming clan, loses its potency after too many people join. When there are many and you talk, everyone's like: big deal. Your part of the pessimist club.... so is everyone else. It takes away the exclusivity of the club. Thanks for the compliment on my motto yin. If we were all to come up with our own mottos maybe we should just run it past Yin? He knows the mission the best so he could tell you if its applicable. How about it?

	27-07-2001 08:55									#17
	Suffering from ads?

BOOOOOO!

The enemy! We shall bring you down .

	27-07-2001 09:29									#18
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: I dont think we should let too many more people join.

I understand your point, but the goal here is to express to Firaxis in a significant way (ex: LOTS of people) that we are here in big numbers looking for big updates, discussions, etc. But I wouldn't really worry too much because once Imran brings in his troops, we might be BEGGING for members.

	27-07-2001 09:57									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Like another here mentioned. . i am largely an optimist that realizes that Firaxis NEEDS the community to help them make the greatest game possible. And hopefully, THEY realize that as well. WE are the consumers here, the demands are ours to make!

But I believe firaxis will do well.

	27-07-2001 10:47									#20
	Tired of ads?

Hey yin, the mission statement that you wrote is exactly the statement that should be attached to all members of the forums whether they join your club or not. Every little suggestion we make should help better the game.

	27-07-2001 11:14									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

well ok yin since i can't spread too much drunkin cheer why don't i make them an offer they can't refuse? i will offer them 2 12 packs and a copy of Top Gun if they get the game done by say.... end of August lol. However, if they decide that offer isn't good enough i will fire bomb there house! Me and my cousin Vinny will "creatively" make them work harder lol

	27-07-2001 11:18									#22
	Support Apolyton

You know, Yin, I have read your fears and concerns and can identify with them. Heck, in another thread I mentioned the "Yin's civ 2.5 crowd", of which, I concider myself a part of. Yet, I am not sure I am ready to appy for membership to your group.

What I am asking for, however, is the chance to be admitted if August comes and we have not heard encouraging words from Firaxis... I want to be positive, but that would put me over the edge. I want this game to be good. I want to be excited and positive...., I need to quote one of my favorite actors (Samuel L Jackson) to sum up my attitude toward Civ3...

"But I'm tryin'. I'm tryin' real hard to be a shepherd."

It almost seems like we can come up with a historical quote to sum up the attitude Firaxis is taking with all the Civ fans... might even make a catchy corporate motto: "Sid Meier's Civilization III: Let them eat cake."

	27-07-2001 11:21									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

hey yin i can be the jolly drunk enforcer of the group if you would like lol haha just think of me as santa clause with a really pissed off attitude lol

	27-07-2001 11:35									#24
	Remove this text

Warm Beer: Sounds fair enough for me. According to your conditions, I actually HOPE you don't need to join.

Beckdawg: Just remember that using a beer bottle in a fight is a felony.

	27-07-2001 11:36									#25
	Tired of ads?

I like your vision statement a lot Yin. It sounds a little bit like something I stated defending your review. I'm optimistic about the game but I do believe in your vision statement. I would like to become a member of your club. Under one cirumstance that you start asking people why they should be accepted to the club. People shouldn't be able to join your club unless they have a valid reason about why they truely want to join.

The reason why I want to join is for this "We do this NOT to detract from Civ 3's creation but, rather, to help guide it to the greatest possible success.". I couldn't agree more with that statement. For this game to truely be the "people's game" everybody needs to criticize the parts of the game they don't like. In doing this criticism, Firaxis will hear out the people and make some changes to that part of the game people dislike. If we don't criticize we won't get the game we want. So my motto would be "accepting faults won't lead to perfection, criticizing faults will lead to resolvement, and ultimately creating the perfect game, the people's game".

	27-07-2001 11:41									#26
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

TechWins: Thanks for the very kind support. I won't add you just yet until you feel comfortable with my thinking about membership, which is this:

By joining, I hoped it was obvious people are agreeing to the vision statement and my comments about NOT bashing Firaxis. If I had to ask each person, it would be a real mess. If you like, I can make that somehow more obvious that "when you join, you are agreeing to these principles" or something, if you like.

Let me know. I'd love to have you join, and I REALLY like your motto.

	27-07-2001 11:41									#27
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Ok so i wont use a bottle in the fight lol. But it isn't illigeal unless you get caught. "But judge i swear i don't remember hitting Sid with the bottle and i didn't have a drink ALL NIGHT!" lol Well if i mess up too much i will just burry him with jimmy hoffa. I still like that fire bombing idea lol

	27-07-2001 11:57									#28
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Yin, those terms are acceptable. I thought if everybody stated why they feel they should be accepted that might limit the amount of people who would join. Some people might not be able to come up with a valid reason or some people might not stating why they feel that they should be accepted. So yes I would like to join your club still.

By the way, I don't think you have the dates right on when people became members. I think it should be 26/7. I thought you might like to know that.

	27-07-2001 12:01									#29
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

well yin i am gone like a fart in the wind but if any nay sayers....or would they be yea sayers.....well whoever we are against lol come mouthing give me a ring a ding ding. i will get my 40 ozer out and lay some smack down. haha that would be classic reminds me of the song by weird al the night santa went crazy lol THAT'S ME! Peace and down w/ the optimists

	27-07-2001 12:35									#30
	First club discussion? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

as one of the club's first discussion's i'd like to raise the subject of the sim golf chat that happened yesterday. did anyone else watch and were you as sickened as I was? Sid gave an example of an unhappy couple doing a round of golf, they're "discussion" turned from "i'm unhappy" to "lets start a baby tonight!" Maybe it is a good idea for firaxis to be doing two games at once... otherwise the sim golf programmers could be writing the advisor's comments