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Bluevoss
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Orlando, Florida
Dec 2000
time: 05:14
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One of the things I'd like to see done in CTP2 is the bit about the begining of the game. In Civ, you start as a lowly tribe with one settler and hardly ANY knowledge. In CTP2, you begin with two settlers and several skills already (including, always, toolmaking).
I'd like to see the game start back in 6000 BC or so, with a single settler unit and no (or very few) intrinsic skills. That way, you would have to find a place to settle and really begin your culture up from the ground up. It seems that Activision decided that it would be boring and skipped that part. Alas.
Having said that... 
Simply moving the year back two grand and starting the player with nothing would not be as easy as it would seem. First, it still takes a long time to develope skills (40 turns, I think, so the very first skill would take a thousand years). And whoever got warrior first would be able to walk the entire map (or a good portion of it) until the other races got mobile.
I guess the dream would be to have a set of simple skills (toolworking, etc) that would be fairly quick to learn, so the society isn't just sitting around waiting. And it would also be good to have limited explorer (i.e. hunter/gatherer) units that would give you SOME idea of the area around you while you built knowledge).
I realize, in thinking this through, that CTP2 is made to ballence one way, and it simply would not work well to show the dawn of man. It takes too long to learn the basic skills, and mobile units are too mobile (how far could primitive man really stray from his campsite?).
Just thinking aloud... 
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Bluevoss
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Orlando, Florida
Dec 2000
time: 05:14
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So what else does Cradle have? How much of MedMod2 does it incorporate? I gotta admit that I'm hooked on Wes's improvements.
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hexagonian
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Gnawing on your mind...
Jun 1999
time: 23:14
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Here's my favorite quote from my Cradle thread...
quote:
Originally posted by Kull
Well, I just got through playing a game of "Cradle" to 1050 AD and a game of MedModII to 1840AD. Both were on Gigantic maps, "Impossible" setting. Some comments:
MM2 is a beatiful creation. Lovely graphics, a wonderful tech tree, and plenty of great new units and ideas. But the AI was utterly passive (with the notable exception of it's "take no prisoners" approach to naval activities). My prinicpial enemy early on was the Spanish, and they did launch a couple halfhearted offensives VERY early in the game. But once I took their first city, that was it...defense all the way. And it was the same with every other civ. For the vast majority of the game the AI sent exactly ZERO stacks to confront my units and cities. And the Barbarians were essentially absent. On balance a much better game than the original, but still afflicted with that boring AI.
Cradle1.1 was an eye opener. First two games the Barbarians just wiped me out before 5000 B.C. Suffice it to say that single units wandering around looking for ruins will meet an ugly end right quick, and you better keep a few units in the home city....militia alone won't help. The third game lasted longer, but the result wasn't much different. Can you say AGGRESSIVE?! I'd played the first iterations of Cradle, and knew how dangerous the Barbarians are....but now it's the AI Civs too! Unlike normal games of CTP, starting "behind" is not a temporary situation! In my case, I was absolutely last on the power graph, and shared a continent with a nasty group of Mongols and a supposedly pacifist bunch of Indians. Of my 10 or so cities, the Mongols took one, the Barbs took my capital, and the Indians (with great huge smiles on their diplomatic faces) surprise-attacked me TWICE and took another five cities. Oh...and these guys were only 4 and 5 on the Power Graph! The only reason I even lasted this long is that I paid the Indians for some Bronze Age techs, but now they are coming at me with Legions and Composite Bowmen (I still have slingers for God's Sake!) and Heavy Cav.....so it's basically over. I could probably whine and play dead and last for another 500 years, but the idea of somehow winning this thing is laughable.
So, if you're a warmonger type and like plenty of action, you BETTER download the Cradle and take it for a spin! Oh.....and in this mod....."Impossible" means just what it says!
Time for a new game on an easier setting.....and if I EVER bump into those ^%&*#@ Indians again, they will be SUCH roadkill!!  |
Granted, the results that Kull had from MedMod could of been a one-time occurance - I am hearing that there is plenty of combat in MedMod too. I have yet to play MedMod so I cannot compare one from another. But I have heard from others that Cradle is VERY aggressive, and that is its strength.
Some SLIC code in Cradle not in MedMod
Wonderunits - a set of leader units that are available when you build certain Wonders - like Hammurabi, Ramses, Alexander the Great and so on - they grant vet status to an army, capture a defeated foe and turn it into a loyal low-level infantry unit and they enslave too.
UnitUpdater - allows a player to upgrade obsolete units with gold - beware - the AI does it for free though - very nasty indeed
It incorporates Diplo 3.5 which is a more aggressive diplomacy system than Diplo 3.6
A low level version of AI Frenzy
Cradle also used the Capital rebuild code, city building destruction code, and militia code found in MedMod.
OTHER
The barbs in Cradle on the highest setting is much higher than that in MedMod - unless this has bee changed recently...
Difficulty levels are ramped up more in favor of the AI on the higher levels.
There are more drastic measures on unhappiness and the benefits you get from maxxing out the sliders too.
Plus a whole set of new ancient units/techs/wonders - the bulk of the game is in Ancient/Medieval (600 turns is about early Medieval)
A set of files that will allow you some different playing options - faster advances, more expensive units, higher gold.
The files are located at http://www.mydocsonline.com
login: hexagonia
password: hextapul
in the folder CRADLE
It requires Modswapper - I just converted it over last night. (if there is a problem let me know)
The Readme covers it a little more extensively.
Give it a spin...My game recorded in the Cradle thread was played on Very Hard - - it is possible to overtake the AI on that level though I have yet to try it on Impossible yet.
Last edited by hexagonian on 29-07-2001 at 02:12
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28-07-2001 08:29
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