28-07-2001 13:37									#1
	Sid says: "Civ III delivers visual realism like never before." Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

First, what a joke. Oh Lord.

Second, I doubt he even said that. Some silly questions came to Firaxis for Sid and some silly person answered for him. Happens ALL the time in this biz. Anyway, he probably hasn't even seen Civ 3 except in passing down the hallway on his way to Maxis. But as you look at the picture below, consider that we DO, indeed, have a realists' club, and this (at least to Sid --or the publicist--) is how realists want to the world to look. Hmmm, exciting eh? Yeah, Sid. Keep it real, baby. Keep it real.

	28-07-2001 13:46									#2
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Don't mind me. I'm just posting something remotely realistic for rough comparison, in case "realistic" is a vague concept to some people, like Sid's PR person.

	28-07-2001 13:48									#3
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You might be right about Sid not actually answering some of the questions.

Yin, I don't think you should be showing pictures of crap. That's exactly what that is, crap. I mean it sure is nice how it looks like the road magically comes off from the ground goes over a mountain and then returns back to the ground, that amazing. I'm not sure if those are cities, they look more like city dumps to me. I have absolutely no idea on what those units are down at the bottom. Overall, I would like to say good job to the janitor (there's nothing wrong with being a janitor IMO) down at Firaxis. How you've been able to make crap look this good is outstanding. So keep up the good work on the graphics, Firaxis's janitor. That is who did these graphics right? Oh you say no, then what the hell are you people doing down there at Firaxis land? Right now I would do anything for some old fashioned Atari graphics if Civ3 wouldn't have to have these graphics.

	28-07-2001 13:50									#4
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You pestimists and your conspiracy theories are beyond me. Besides the borders/roads not going behind the mountains (which they probably should by release) everything graphics-wise looks fine to me. Keep up the good work, Firaxis.

	28-07-2001 13:54									#5
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quote: You pestimists and your conspiracy theories are beyond me.

Hey, I'm not a pessimist (I was for one day, though). I am, as of right now, the sole member of The Critically Literal Optimist Association (TCLOA), accepting anybody (except anybody who already belongs to a club).

	28-07-2001 14:02									#6
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TechWins, you should know that organizations with an barrvation of under 6 letters are not officially recognized by Apolyton

	28-07-2001 14:03									#7
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Now I do not have that large of a gripe with the Civ3 graphics, as a whole (Oh yes, there is room for improvement...) But there was something in the interview that rubbed the wrong way:

"CVG: Is Civ III sufficiently different from previous incarnations to feel like a new game, even to veterans of the series?

Meier: Yes! With all of the new and updated systems we’ve put in Civ III (like the enhanced trade system, the new concept of culture, greatly expanded diplomacy, more powerful combat and the most detailed and beautiful art, animations and sound ever found in the genre"

The last bit bugged me ... seemed to be a lot of emphasis on the graphics, animations and sound (I must admit that the first bit is intriguing, trade, culture etc.)...

Perhaps I am just grumpy coz I need sleep. It still rubbed me the wrong way, though.

	28-07-2001 14:22									#8
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Sid distinctly said visual REALISM, so whats with all the pestimism?

	28-07-2001 15:25									#9
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quote: TechWins, you should know that organizations with an barrvation of under 6 letters are not officially recognized by Apolyton

Oh I see, so you're prejudice. I mean you're discriminating against small things. I can't help that my club has a small abbreviation. Now look what you did, you made me cry. Are you proud of yourself? Just to let people who didn't realise this but I was joking. I'll ride off into the sunset (actually sunrise for me right now) all alone as the sole member of my club (TCLOA) because all of Mark having to be prejudice. Thanks Mark.

	28-07-2001 16:51									#11
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Some of those questions are definantly not answered by Sid Meier. I'm not too hapy with the graphics in Civ 3, but it might just look bad in the screenshots.

	28-07-2001 19:09									#12
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Looks as if Sid(to be "optimistic" for once") was just expaning on what little had already been said. As for the screenschots I the colours are just way too off, I prefer the look Civ2 over this, I really would like to have seen CTP2 o better terrian, maybe not for the units.

Does anyone beside me get the feeling(from this interview) that they don't have the MP system worked out yet?

	28-07-2001 19:37									#13
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Grow up! Sid Meier isn't a real person. He's a fairytale creature. He's the Santa Claus of computer games.

	28-07-2001 20:31									#14
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wow. yin you are really low now. you take a screenshot that looks like crap and say that it represents the entire civ series. that is just sad. youve used that enough already, when are you gonna realise that this art is old. do you really think there gona let a road run over a mountain? if you do you have ALOT to learn about the gaming buisiness. then you compare it with a screenshot from a game in wich graphics are the only thing going for it. that is really sad. i, to tell ya the truth, LIKE that screenshot. and before you tell me that is constructive criticism then tell me WHY you have continued to use the same screenshot from your previous whinings. haven't you already proven that you dont like that screenshot? if you did then why press on? and if you made a game and went to a interveiw and was asked "will veteran fans feel the same about this game as they did with civ2" would you go "no. infact they will hate it, no one should ever buy it"? tell me when you come up with a new batch of "constructive whining"

	28-07-2001 20:34									#15
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by the way, when was a walking sphinx very realistic? thats RTS. if you haven't noticed civ is TBS. they are a tad bit different

	28-07-2001 20:36									#16
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also, when were graphics that important to you? isnt it "gameplay that counts" what a hipocrit.

	28-07-2001 21:05									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Gangerolf Grow up! Sid Meier isn't a real person. He's a fairytale creature. He's the Santa Claus of computer games.

Thank you, Gangerolf! Everything makes so much sence now... I feel so childish.

	28-07-2001 22:19									#18
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if after 6 years this is what we get..... yuck....give me civ2 or even SMAC over this garbage

	28-07-2001 22:26									#19
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Age of Mythology graphics really are awesome, as a former ager I keep in touch with this. And BTW, this screenshot isn't the most impressive. If you want some, go to http://aom.heavengames.com and see screens there. Strategy games usually had the worst graphics, I hope this will no longer be the case.

	28-07-2001 22:28									#20
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quote: Originally posted by War4ever if after 6 years this is what we get..... yuck....give me civ2 or even SMAC over this garbage

wow! does anyone EVER read my posts .so you all think it will ship this way? sure.... you go on blindly following yin, ill play civ3

	28-07-2001 22:31									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Solver Age of Mythology graphics really are awesome, as a former ager I keep in touch with this. And BTW, this screenshot isn't the most impressive. If you want some, go to http://aom.heavengames.com and see screens there. Strategy games usually had the worst graphics, I hope this will no longer be the case.

true, AoM has good graphics but A:do you play the graffics or the game B:what does that have to do with civ 3? lets talk about civ not aom

	28-07-2001 22:41									#22
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Just a little observation...

In the interview Sid said "Civ III delivers visual realism like never before" and yet these (hopefully) outdated unrealistic screenshots are shown both on the site with the interview as well as Firaxis' own site. It Seems to me that Sid should have added some comment about the screenshots being old so as to prevent people from worrying that those screenshots might actually represent the "realism" that Sid was referring to.

	28-07-2001 22:46									#23
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quote: Originally posted by splangy

Aaaaaaaaaaah RUN FOR COVER ITS THE INVASION OF THE SMILEYS

Seriously dude it wasnt THAT funny.

	28-07-2001 22:49									#24
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quote: Originally posted by old timer It Seems to me that Sid should have added some comment about the screenshots being old so as to prevent people from worrying that those screenshots might actually represent the "realism" that Sid was referring to.

Unless, of course, these screenshots are accurate (more or less, sans a bit of tweaking)... It is possible that the folks at Firaxis could actuall like the graphics that we are seeing.

It's just a thought, mind you.

	29-07-2001 00:04									#25
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quote: Originally posted by splangy also, when were graphics that important to you? isnt it "gameplay that counts" what a hipocrit.

if your so negative splangy, why don't you take your abusive posts elsewhere where no one else has to see them. yin never did anything to you. why don't you just ignore a thread if yin created it. we are constructive pessimists, not barbarians who attack others for having a different point of view!

	29-07-2001 00:26									#26
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The reason that different games like AOM are being discussed in this thread is because that Sid said that Civ3 would the be the height of realism in graphics. Now, we are trying to show that there are other games that have better graphics than the Civ3 screenshots that have been released, one could be optimistic and say that the current graphics for Civ3( the ones we havn't yet seen) are far superior to those what we do.

I think that Civ3's graphics even in comparasion to TBS games, like Europa Universalis, CTP2, CTp and even Tot, doesn't look like a step forward(maybe on the same level as the others but not an advancement).

As for RTS being different from TBS why should the graphics be any different. I think that one could make superp terriand a graphics that would blow AOM out of the water(with translucent oceans and dynamic wave patterens), its just a matter of if they want to do it or not.

Does graphics make the game? Ceritanly not, but ugly games are hard to keep an interst in no matter how well done the rest of the game is.

	29-07-2001 00:31									#27
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Especially to Yin: "waah". All you do is complain that the graphics are going to be lousy in Civ3. Don't you have any optimism inside of you, or were you just born this way? If nothing else, let it rest because by now everyone knows how you feel.

Anyway, I believe that the graphics in Civ3 are going to be really good, if not great. The screenshots that we're seeing are old so I'm sure that there has been updating and tweaking. Besides which, this is Civ, not Quake. I don't need the best, best, best graphics on the market. Yes, they should be good, but it's not the most important thing.

	29-07-2001 01:16									#28
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quote: Originally posted by CivPatriot The reason that different games like AOM are being discussed in this thread is because that Sid said that Civ3 would the be the height of realism in graphics. Now, we are trying to show that there are other games that have better graphics than the Civ3 screenshots that have been released,...

Before we go any further with this. I just want to get the facts smooth, I quote this from the interview from Sid;

quote: Meier: Yes! With all of the new and updated systems we’ve put in Civ III (like the enhanced trade system, the new concept of culture, greatly expanded diplomacy, more powerful combat and the most detailed and beautiful art, animations and sound ever found in the genre

notice the last few words, most detailed and beautiful art, animations and sound ever found in the genre. Thats right, in the genre. and, logically, Age of Mythology is not in the Turn Based Strategy Genre... So please, Keep It In The GENRE!!!

	29-07-2001 01:30									#29
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I mean come on guys. I can understand being skeptic about stuff.... but now its like you guys are being lazy. Its a known fact that Destruction is easier than Construction... and all you guys can think of is how sucky the graphics look (which has already been brought up by Yin.. infact this is the second time Yin is complaining about graphics with a second post... your starting to repeat yourself!) anyway, try being constructive.... Look at this game, Steel Panthers. I played it, its was fun, graphics sux. I think Civ3's graphics are better than this... even with a defective road.

Aaah pooh, i dont know how to get images up.. and I gotta go to work, no time to fiqure it all out. Anyway to see those horrific screenshots, go to: http://www.gamesdomain.com/gdreview...n98/sp3-02.html

I'm just doing the same thing Yin is..

	29-07-2001 02:23									#30
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To_Serve_Man, thanks for pointing that out, I failed to see that when I read the article(I skim-read, makes for mistakes like this).

The roads do not bother me as much as some of the colours do. I can live with the roads. The two things that would really improve the graphics whould be to get rid of that pink colour and use flags for the civs instead of colouring part of the units the civ's oclour(that's what the screenshots appear to me to be doing). Those two would be a big help.

But the graphics are better than SMAC! I think that Civ3's graphics will at least be on par with others in the genre, but if they are a major advancement.. I don't know.