30-07-2001 14:24									#61
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

One more thought. I don't know if the questions for part 2 of the interview have been put together yet or not. If not, I'd like to hear what happened to the "minor civ" concept that was officially mentioned once very early on, but hasn't been mentioned since. And what about the idea bandied about from some Firaxis source for a converter program to convert Civ2 scenarios to Civ3 format? Things like that would make the "conservative" Civ3 design go down easier with many, I'm sure.

	30-07-2001 14:31									#62
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: Neither of them are going to be the best strategy game ever That's because they are both RPGs...

Heh. I mean I would far rather have a superb strategy game to play which has near-infinite replayability, but these two titles are looking so good that it will dispel the frustration for at least a couple of months. Arcanum even has a demo to prove it! Perhaps I should mention EU2 is in production for a possible christmas release just to keep more focussed on strategy games. I'm even willing to bet that it will have more beautiful graphics. Oh wait, it has realtime elements so it obviously can't be counted for comparison either....

	30-07-2001 14:33									#63
	Support Apolyton

hey harlan,
good to see you again!

on the editable number of civs: yes, it sounds a lot like ctp, but this isnt activision, where the upper managment takes the people from the team and move on to the next game. smac got much more support that ctp1 and this quote form the interview is encouraging...

We're very proud of the Civ III editors and since these are tools for consumers, we have big plans for allowing these serious mod developers to achieve their goals. This will include dialogues with those developers who have a proven track record or a promising idea, updates to the editors based on ease of use and functionality, and improving the methods of distributing and playing these scenarios


on activision's profits: actually, they made a profit for the first quarter

from our news
Video game publisher Activision on Tuesday reported a small profit for its fiscal first quarter, rather than the loss analysts had expected, and raised its full year estimates due to strong sales, especially for Nintendo's Game Boy Advance


about future interviews: we dont have one scheduled yet. thanks for the suggestions

	30-07-2001 15:15									#64
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

That was the first time Activision made a profit during the first quarter in the 22 year history of the company.

	30-07-2001 16:15									#65
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Regarding Activision, I took a quick peek at their finances and I believe they look rather healthy, they had a profit in 4 of the past 5 years, they can easily cover their interest payments, they have a stockpile of cash...
Besides, CTP 1&2 are just two of the many games they sell, items like quake and startrek are way more important for them

	30-07-2001 16:27									#66
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Well, though I am a member of the realist club, this interview tends to make me feel pessimistic...

I am sure the graphics will be improved. The ones we have seen so far, are so bad they can't be the final ones.

Also the AI will be reasonable. Just that it isn't mentioned doesn't mean they are not improved.

But the fact that the 8 civs max is still unchanged disappoints me. Not that I would play a lot with 7+ civs, but the fact that it is not possible for them to change a few screens, gives me a funny feeling in my stomache...

I will buy civ3 no matter what. Just to be able to judge it and talk about. Till I have played the final product, I will try to be positive about it.

	30-07-2001 16:32									#67
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

it is not max... you will be able to edit the game and get more civs, just some features might be lost... but theat is not the end of the world.

It would definitly be better with all the features, but I guess they had more important stuff to develop from their perspective.

I am happy they allowed more civs... (remembering the silence from a few months ago it looked like they might not allow it at all)

	30-07-2001 17:17									#68
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Did all of these squawking people read the same interview I did? I thought Jeff came across as a straight shooter, giving honest answers that didn't sound like they'd been filtered through the legal department. I was very encouraged by the same statement MarkG quotes near the top of this page: it represents a promise to support scenario development after release.

I think Mark and Dan would have done well to have closed this Civ3 general forum for the last six months. I used to read and post here, but the tone and content has steadily degenerated. Firaxis has been busy writing software, so any suggestions for new features are moot. Firaxis has no obligation to spoon feed us information about the progress of their game.

I still plan to buy the game as soon as it hits store shelves. If it's the worst game I've ever played (most unlikely), it won't be the largest amount of money I've ever wasted. For people who don't plan to buy the game, for whatever reason, fine; that's your right. But don't badmouth the game without ever playing it!

	30-07-2001 17:34									#69
	Increase Your PM Length

Overall, I believe that many are giving this interview too much importance. AFAIK Morris didn't gave many specific details, nor did he say much about how the game will function. At the least, I'd wait for real and detailed previews and reviews before making any judgements.

	30-07-2001 18:32									#70
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

In my opinion most people are getting too excited one way or another about this interview. We should condemn the game just from one interview. I mean I agree, the graphics need to be worked on some more, but as far as the gameplay goesit sounds like they have really upgraded a lot of things. The graphics are just different , I think. We are all used to graphics such as the CTP series, that uses more of a bright style. Personally, I think that it could be neat having graphics that make it appear as though you are moving peices around on a parchment style map. But I guess to each his own.

	30-07-2001 19:59									#71
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

For the optimistic look at the article.

I was going to post this in the optimist club thread only to find that an extreme pessimist closed it. BOOOO Mark.

So now even the non-optimists will read it. BOOOOOOOO

OK, after reading the interview, I'm really looking forward to the game.

"We're on our third alpha version at the time of this writing. Civ III should hit beta within 2-3 weeks."

Farther than I thought. We'll see it for the Christmas season.

"We really appreciate getting feedback from fans. They're useful in that they focus on many of the issues and features that we're debating internally and they give us some new ideas as well."

They Listened. I'm sure they read the cheat list that Ming compiled and have fixed EVERYTHING.

"We're very proud of the Civ III editors and since these are tools for consumers, we have big plans for allowing these serious mod developers to achieve their goals. "

We can help making any changes.

"Graphic tasks right now are finishing the remaining overlay tiles (like poles and mines) and polishing screens."

The final graphics will be better than the screen shots that we have seen.

"They fundamentally changed the way the game plays. Culture's impact on the acquisition of new territory and how you support a high culture civilization are definitely a 'new' way to play."

SO much for just civ2.5, this will really be civ3.


Not bad for a corp mouthpiece. I'd like to thank him for the time he spent addressing a small but important part of the CIV community.


RAH
One of the many Presidents of the Optimist Club. Even though some pole up the *** authority figure has close the thread.

	30-07-2001 21:41									#72
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I, too, am optimistic about civ3. Firaxis hasn't been great about releasing information, but they are under any obligation to us. It'd be nice, but they don't need to.

Also - everything I read in the interview sounded sincere. I don't see anything that looks like the pre-programmed messages we sometimes get. This was unfiltered, unadulterated info.

	30-07-2001 22:25									#73
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Hey, it is nice to see some more information. So there can be 8 civs at once, but kind of room for more, yes? Sounds interesting how this one will develop.

I never had a lot of problems with SMAC myself. The problem I had was when I downloaded the demo on my computer, it just didn't work, full stop. I wrote an email to Firaxis about this giving my computer setup, etc, etc. And low and behold, the full game worked with no problem. I think a lot of existing compatibility issues can be ironed out just after the demo.

The graphics are still under work as well I see. I think the graphics are fine anyway, just need some ironing out...namely the kind of stuff, overlaying tiles, etc. This is what I expected to occur.

Yin is good and eloquent, but sometimes I still get the feeling he is making a mountain out of a molehill. It is impossible to level so much criticism at a game before you have even played it.

	30-07-2001 23:00									#74
	Increase the size of your Attachments

It really looks like Civ3 is going beyond Civ2.5. Even if it is perceived as Civ2.5, that will be a great thing for many reasons, with one being that'll get rid of the likes of yin26 and his self-importance watchdog attitude. But unfortunately, he'll buy it the first day (along with all those who said they won't) because they don't want to be left behind in spouting their unrealistic, ego-centric drivel.

	30-07-2001 23:24									#75
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by ASHBERY76 MOO3

I second that notion. Check out the moo3.com web site (which has been up for over 6months even though the game itself wont be released until 2002) Read the many "data dumps" on the page (any one of them is more than all the info the civ team has provided put together) and you'll see that this the real game to take the TBS genre to new heights. It is everything that civ3 is not. Despite the fact that i have been playing civ/civ2/SMAC no stop for the last 6 years, its MOO3 that im really waiting for now.

After all this silence I expected some kind of annoucemnt, some kind of reassurance that the best was still to come. Unfortunately all we got was that Firaxis has decided that Civ is as good as its ever going to get and doesnt need any improvement (or debugging!) Thank you Jeff Morris and Firaxis. You have successfully alienated one of your biggest fans.

Yin! Where do i sign up?

	31-07-2001 00:02									#76
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Nadexander Check out the moo3.com web site (which has been up for over 6months even though the game itself wont be released until 2002) Read the many "data dumps" on the page (any one of them is more than all the info the civ team has provided put together) and you'll see that this the real game to take the TBS genre to new heights. It is everything that civ3 is not. Despite the fact that i have been playing civ/civ2/SMAC no stop for the last 6 years, its MOO3 that im really waiting for now.

MOO3 is completely different from civ is a lot of ways. It's tough to compare them. Some people will flat out not play sci-fi type games and vice versa.

Also -- If MOO3 turns out to be not so great, you'll be incredibly dissapointed. With civ3, realistic people haven't set their hopes too high yet. (yin and followers are also quite below what is realistic in their expectations )

Finally, I'm not saying Firaxis intended to hold info in order to surprise us, but at least we won't (most of us, anyway) have unrealistic hopes for civ3.

quote: After all this silence I expected some kind of annoucemnt, some kind of reassurance that the best was still to come. Unfortunately all we got was that Firaxis has decided that Civ is as good as its ever going to get and doesnt need any improvement (or debugging!)

Nobody has decided that civ was finished. "Conservative" does not mean they are going to give us a Civ2.1, like with CTP2. This is not Activision. They have also said nothing about bugs or debugging. No public beta does not mean it is unsupported.

quote: Thank you Jeff Morris and Firaxis. You have successfully alienated one of your biggest fans.

I think it's sad that you're giving up on civ3 without ever seeing or playing it. If you don't buy it, that's your decision, but don't badmouth Firaxis for something you know nothing about. They have worked very hard (I hope) and don't deserve your abuse.

	31-07-2001 00:31									#77
	Support Apolyton

Until you see and play the game yourself...

I will withhold judgement until then. I look forward to rushing out and buying it on the day of it's release. If it sucks, then I will get vocal and do my best to see what can be fixed.

However, I plan on be being hooked on the game for the minute I load it on my machine.

Keep on Civin'

	31-07-2001 00:44									#78
	Got spare money?

quote: Nobody has decided that civ was finished.

quote: Where is the development at this current stage? Is there a release date yet? Civ III should hit beta within 2-3 weeks. There is an internal deadline, but when the game will hit shelves hasn't been specifically pinned. Public betas serve as valuable sounding boards for a game, but their true value is in compatibility testing. It basically allows us to skip a patch.

once a game hits beta, they don't add in new features they cut out features that have already been implemented and don't work...once it hits beta (which since there isn't a closed beat or an open beta) then it is just bug fixes, and polishing the game..QA things

so pretty much civ3 is finished except for polishing it up

it hits beta the second or third week of august...that gives firaxis about two months to polish the game up so that it can go gold in time to hit retail at the end of october

so expect to see this game by christmas

i don't care if firaxis has ten patches, as long as they support the game and fix the bugs i'll be happy

but for all of you saying it's too early to tell...you're wrong...pretty much 90% of the game is set in stone, if changes are made parts will get deleted not added in...

	31-07-2001 00:53									#79
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by korn469 but for all of you saying it's too early to tell...you're wrong...pretty much 90% of the game is set in stone

and what do we know from this 90%?? not much, just general descriptions on some of the features. so yes, it IS too early to tell....

	31-07-2001 01:02									#80
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by MarkG there is always that thing called "demo".....

From your mouth to Infogram's ears, cause they are obviously calling the shots now.

David

	31-07-2001 01:21									#81
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Crouchback From your mouth to Infogram's ears, cause they are obviously calling the shots now.

well, they seem to have demos for all of their games
http://www.us.infogrames.com/demos/

	31-07-2001 02:04									#82
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by MarkG just general descriptions on some of the features.

Actually, that's really all I need in this case. I mean, Civ3 will still have that f*cked up settler-system to take care of tile improvements, still no decent military system, still that boring old government system, really poorly implemented unique units, no minor civs (it's been too silent to still be really alive) and no city-expansion or other revolutionary ideas. Okay, the resources system sounds nice and culture could be promising but other than that, not much special so far. The details of the few things that *are* in may be worked out very well, but that just makes it a very good Civ2.5 rather than Civ3.

Yes, it is too early to tell and Civ3 will probably fun to play...for a few weeks. Based on all known info, I find it very realistic to assume that it will then probably turn out to be very much like Civ2. And I'm sure others will be very happy to play Civ2(.5) for another 7 years but I was already tired of it 3 years ago. I don't expect to be playing Civ3 very much after those first weeks. I'd rather play CtP2 + MedMod instead, which does fix most of the problems I described above and also has a very well-working AI and diplomacy, something that remains to be seen with Civ3 (and could well turn out to be a lot less customizable, knowing Firaxis).

For the record: with these comments I'm not abusing or attacking Firaxis in any way - and I'm sure yin and others aren't either. (Hell, if you want to see abuse, come visit the CtP forums and read some of the sh*t people spilled over Activision in the past few years.) Criticizing is not badmouthing. I know Firaxis is working very hard to make Civ3 a good game. I simply disagree with them on their 'conservative sequel' approach. Civ3 will almost certainly turn out to be a great game for some people but it will probably never exceed 'nice' for me. Also, I'm a little irritated by the arrogance of some people (including Firaxians) who claim Civ3 will without question be the best Civ game ever; that's simply not true... This irritation may have made some of my posts sound slightly ruder than they were intended.

BTW Hi Harlan, good to see you back! Long time no see. Have you giving up on the Alexander scenario? Haven't heard anything about it in ages...

	31-07-2001 02:55									#83
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

MarkG

quote: and what do we know from this 90%?? not much, just general descriptions on some of the features. so yes, it IS too early to tell....

you are completely right...here at apolyton we don't know much about civ3, we have read previews made by the game press at E3 and we have read interviews with members of firaxis...none of that information gives us a clue as to how the game will really play...it all comes down to balance...so no review made by anyone at apolyton is valid until at least the first patch comes out for civ3

that being said

i am not sure how many programers are actually working on civ3...but what it comes down to is that basically there is at most about 200 hours per programer to implement any features in the design document that haven't already made their way into the game...since we haven't heard anything about multiplayer in civ3, we can assume that some of that time is going to be spent implementing MP features...anytime spent on one area of the game will not be available to work on other areas of the game...and there are deadlines looming...so at this point while we might not know what exactly is going to be in civ3, firaxis does...with two weeks until beta there isn't enough time or resources to suddenly implement some stroke of genius

that logically leads one to the conclusion that

*civ3 is almost feature complete

so any feature we haven't heard discussed is

*not going to be in civ3
*not yet revealed

i'm sure that firaxis does have a surprise or two in store for us, but conservative sequal means

a cautious continuation tending to oppose change

and that any possibility of some mindblowing new feature that firaxis hasn't mentioned yet is very slim (well maybe not to rah )

the possibility that firaxis is completely holding back a slew of new things is highly unlikely...

please note that i think all of the things presented are enough to make civ3 a great game if they are implemented in the right way...and we won't be able to know this for a while

also some features like harlan's minor civs are more than likely out and many more might get cut before the game hits retail

i'd like to go on record as saying i think civ3 will be the best civ yet, but will it be good enough to impress us is still up in the air

	31-07-2001 03:11									#84
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: The difference between Civ (1) and Civ 2 is very apparent, and no one would argue that it wasn't a marvelous "next step." Civ 3 was supposed to be another step, but with a "conservative" approach, how can it be? Would anyone say that the differences between the original Civ and Civ 2 were made with a "conservative" approach? I didn't think so.

ROFLMAO! Civ2 was a VERY conservative game. If it was released today, we'd call it Civ1.1. Doesn't mean it wasn't good, just didn't change much. Civ3 is a Hell of a lot more change than Civ2 was from Civ.

That was the funniest thing I've seen in a while, btw .

	31-07-2001 03:23									#85
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: ROFLMAO! Civ2 was a VERY conservative game. If it was released today, we'd call it Civ1.1. Doesn't mean it wasn't good, just didn't change much. Civ3 is a Hell of a lot more change than Civ2 was from Civ.

Have you ever played civ1 or civ2?

	31-07-2001 03:58									#86
	Remove this text

In my opinion Civ2 was a conservative game. It just had more of everything compared to Civ1. Infinite City Sprawl was the dominant strategy in both games, but I expect something very different happening in Civ3.

	31-07-2001 06:21									#87
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

... Short interview... In the chat no one discussed the interview All we talked about were-
-LTEC
-Israel
-Hebrew
-Poverty




-Civ 2 didn't change much... It was mostly a graphics update.
-The Council was added
-and much good stuff was removed, the palace changed, the history of your civ removed.
-The AI was a bit better
-as was the map generator

They were essentially the same game.

	31-07-2001 10:10									#88
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I think civ3 will be a very good game. The only problem is the that they aren't using the PW system. But, alas if they did use PW instead of workers Activision would sue the heck out of Firaxis for copyright infringement. :banned: :banned: :banned:

	31-07-2001 11:27									#89
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: I'm a little irritated by the arrogance of some people (including Firaxians) who claim Civ3 will without question be the best Civ game ever; that's simply not true...

And you can say it won't be the best civ ever without any evidence ? That's what I can name arrogance as well.

you're just one of the very much little children around here at Apolyton that's already screaming that their christmas presents aren't good enough while you don't even have any idea what's under the christmast tree. All you've seen is the unpacked presents. The size makes you cry.

I don't care if you won't or will like the game, but I think it's really pathatic to name people arrogant that tell civ3 will be the best civ game ever, while you spread 100% the same arrogance by saying civ won't be the best game ever.

I'm getting tired by all these 3rd millenium kids that have grown up in too much wealth !

If you continue to name civ3 civ 2.5, then concider Quake III to be Quake 1.3, Testdrive 6 to be testdrive 1.7, Need4Speed 4 = 1.5 (mostly only the graphics improved)
Wolfenstein 2 = Wolfenstein 1.2, Keen 7 = Keen 1.2 etc. etc. etc.

People that name civ 3 civ 2.5 based on current information really have no clue about the gaming industry.

	31-07-2001 18:36									#90
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Well said, CyberShy.

Now if we can get these arrogant, bratty children to go to their rooms, we'll raise the intelligence around here ten-fold.

Whether Civ3 will be a superbly great game or not is pretty much irrelevant. If I don't like it (as with EU), fine, I'll play or do something else. It is not that important in my life.

But I do think it'll be as least as good as Civ2 just from the fact that there will be robust customization. Civ2, by itself, is not a perfect game but its customization and user-designed scenarios made it great.