31-07-2001 01:09									#1
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As far as I've heard a new nationalism model is being added to civ3 (old news). But from what I heard it is going to be a purely economic model. With it you can set if your civ's economy is in a war state, peace state, or normal state. If it is at war it builds units faster but improvements slower and vice versa with peace. Normal is.... you guessed it, normal. Now shouldn't nationalism be represented on the battlefield too? Not just at home. Nationalism in the troops of a country has played a major role in countless wars ever since the first nation rose. WW2 is a perfect example. The germans had fervent nationalism implaced by hitler and they conquered most of europe. The British fought against horrible odds and were able to defend their homeland. The Soviets fought with heavy losses against a superior enemy force with determined tenacity. America's nationalism was obvious at home where their industry geared up to amazing heights and they fought two enemies on two fronts. I was thinking that maybe you should have a nationalism rating that is related to your culture, government, and so on. This would then effect to the experience level your troops are built with (plus exp. from barracks, airports, etc...). Thats assuming that experience in Civ3 is similar to the experience in SMAC (for those of you who dont know much about SMAC, there were many levels of soldier experience each higher level raising a unit's attack and defense by a certain percentage). This sounds like a good idea, or is it just me?

	31-07-2001 01:23									#2
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quote: Originally posted by Rommel393 The germans had fervent nationalism implaced by hitler and they conquered most of europe.

You'll need a propaganda mechanism.

	31-07-2001 03:28									#3
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nationalism also does stuff to city disorders.

the 5 GERMANS in berlin will outweigh the 1 FRENCH GUY and cause a scene under french rule.

this makes it harder to conquer enemy cities and hold them, especially KEY cities.

(every population point is given a nationality, if u capture berlin and its a 4, all 4 people are GERMAN. if the city grows, the new pop point is French.)

	31-07-2001 05:31									#4
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Not only should a great culture help you handle a conquered, big city but so should have a big military in that city. I think for every unit in that city it would counterpart one German guy (referring to UberKrux's example). I'm not really sure how this would work because I don't even know the basics (haven't played Civ3 yet) of the nationalsim system.

	31-07-2001 06:00									#5
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Recurve: I agree with you on the propaganda machine and I have been hoping Firaxis puts some form of propaganda control in Civ3.

Ubercrux: Also, a good idea. I've heard of it before. Did Firaxis say that was in or is it just conjecture?

Techwins: Your right but I don't think a strong military should be able to control all of the citizens. Maybe, after 3 units control 3 "germans" there would be no way to further control the other germans. This would symbolize the fact that there are way more civilians in a city than soldiers and are impossible to completely control.

	31-07-2001 06:08									#6
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Yeah, the military shouldn't be able to control a city like you said. There should be some cap number on when the military becomes ineffective. I think maybe it should only be 2 units for every citizen, to demonstrate how hard it is to control a citizen. I also think if a police station is in the city it should help keep things under control as well as doing it's normal function.

UberKrux's statement has been confirmed, I believe.

	31-07-2001 08:02									#7
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That should add a unique twist......

	31-07-2001 13:32									#8
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hm culture,
arguably french culture is one of the worlds' greatest. yet germans occupied paris in WW2, everyone collaborated and had a jolly good time and the infamous 'resistance' was invented for movies and 'alo alo'...
it is actually harder to conquer less developed people, especially very religious ones. rich guys get along fine in any system and type of government, it is the lower classes that really try to get the occupying forces out. this said, i do not care about realism as long as anything they implement is properly balanced

	31-07-2001 14:12									#9
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The problem with French was that they had very bad morale. Government had made some very bad moves before the war, that lowered the overall morale. Of course, there was also a problem with the Maginot line (it wasn't done to the Belgium border...), so it didn't help like it should and would've. But, French morale in factories and at the front was very poor, so they were far from their given potential because of the stupid government.

As for the exact counterpart, we in Finland fought off Soviet first invasion, because of many Soviet errors and with high morale. All our fallens were buried to their home towns (we were the only country to do that), our government had built up the social system, so we had something to defend and so on. In other words, morale was the thing that enabled us to stop Soviet invasion at Winter War and again do so at Continuation War (with new German equipment shipments of course, but that's an other story).

	31-07-2001 14:30									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Mech Assassin The problem with French was that they had very bad morale. Government had made some very bad moves before the war, that lowered the overall morale. Of course, there was also a problem with the Maginot line (it wasn't done to the Belgium border...), so it didn't help like it should and would've. But, French morale in factories and at the front was very poor, so they were far from their given potential because of the stupid government. As for the exact counterpart, we in Finland fought off Soviet first invasion, because of many Soviet errors and with high morale. All our fallens were buried to their home towns (we were the only country to do that), our government had built up the social system, so we had something to defend and so on. In other words, morale was the thing that enabled us to stop Soviet invasion at Winter War and again do so at Continuation War (with new German equipment shipments of course, but that's an other story).

continiuation war? i thought it was called 'northern flank of barbarossa' )