16-11-2000 06:08									#1
	Do You Build Port Facilities? Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I build them, but not very often.

The reasons I don't build them more often are:

(1) Amphibious Warfare is a low priority research item (I also seldom build Marines).

(2) I find other ways to repair ships and create veterans. I repair ships by putting them to sleep or I sail them into the nearest city, disband them, and build a more advanced ship. I create veterans by trolling the enemy shoreline and knocking off unwitting cannons and other easy targets or by engaging them in battle in the normal course of action.

May I have your thoughts on this?

	16-11-2000 06:21									#2
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They are a low porfile for me as well. You really only need a couple if any on a small world. Again it depends on the amount of water, whether your in a hot spot etc.... but generally speaking i have little use for them. Ship repair is nice though, but again whats the point if the ship is 70 tiles away from your port like most of mine are

	16-11-2000 07:13									#3
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I build them in cities on the ocean- duh
yes because I like to have a navy. I know it is not required to kick the ai's ass, but I just like a well rounded military, pluss it looks cool. And the vet ships come in handy every once in a while.

	16-11-2000 10:51									#4
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I only build them when I have AEGIS cruisers, so that they can shore bombard reasonably well. Non-vet subs are useless.

	16-11-2000 12:40									#5
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well all subs are useless. I find it hard to play without some of my units. I usualy put in jet fighters/bombers and nuclear ballistic subs. For some reason they didn't put them in the original game (yes I know there isn't much time to use the prop planes and electic subs if you do this, but oh well)

	16-11-2000 17:53									#6
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If I've got the time, I've already researched Amphibious Warfare, and the AI is harassing me with it's navy, I'll build them in a few select spots close to the AI. Vet ships right out of the blocks are pretty potent.

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	16-11-2000 18:45									#7
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If I'm playing a democracy based strategy I'll have gone for Shakespeares Theatre in a coastal city so I can support a mercantile marine and a navy from there without happiness problems. Port Facilities have quite a decently high priority in that city.

Sometimes there is a window of opportunity for a battleship to support a period of conquest and I would be willing to rush Port Facilities for the benefit of either or both initial vet status and/or quick repair during such a period. But I think the necessary tech must be off my usual research paths too because I can't remember ever building Port Facilities in those cases.

My games don't seem to last long enough for Aegis to start playing a part but I intuit that Seeker has a good point there. If you are stacking some hefty units or freight filled transports with Aegis vessels you probably want to be extra secure that they'll keep the cruise missiles at bay.

I've never got round to trying out the marines' ability to attack from on board ship. Anyone know of circs where that is useful? Come to that not seen the AI do it either, and it does go in for marines quite a bit. That is a contrast with Alpha Centauri in which I always seemed to be attacking with vet marines (who get to be pretty near invincible I found - a weakness in the game in fact).

	17-11-2000 01:04									#9
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About Marines -- I seldom build them, but can justify their use.

Amphibious Warfare is a modern technology that is available relatively early. You can use Marines in circumstances where you have researched Amphibious Warfare before your opponents have researched Conscription and Tactics, or have had time to deploy Riflemen and Alpine Troops. In these instances, you can use Vet Marines to attack shoreline cities, then capture and hold them. In other words, Marines can be used like real marines -- to serve as the first assault line and to defend beachheads.

I discovered this in a game where I was "forced" to research Amphibious Warfare. I then trained a squad of Marines, loaded them in a Caravel (yes!) and successfully killed off the Musketeers defending a shoreline city. Again, this is only good if the opponent does not have more advanced defensive troops.

	17-11-2000 01:21									#10
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only in colonies on islands near the AIs, to repair the fleet that's harrassing them.

	17-11-2000 20:23									#12
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i rarely build port facilities and almost never build marines

	18-11-2000 10:06									#13
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I've taken to building Marines, mostly because the AI eventually does, and Riflemen don't seem to stand up against Marines very well.

I also occasionally build port facilities, if the time and economy permits. (Like the occasions where my capital city can build either a port facility or a food caravan, or a very superfluous military unit.)

Jim W

	17-11-2000 23:34									#14
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If the AI opponent is on a different continent, I take one of his cities, slam up walls, and then slam up a port to repair my fleet as we battle along the endless coasts of Civ II. Also use ports for Aegis cruisers, building them as I research that. Not in favor of amphib assaults unless city is a one square island. As noted, that is not common for the AIs.
[This message has been edited by Blaupanzer (edited November 17, 2000).]

	22-11-2000 10:09									#15
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I rarely bother with a lot of fighting ships, so I don't build many ports.

I hardly ever build marines. By the time you can research amphibious warfare, you can usually build units a lot better than marines. But I have been attacked by offshore marines, and it seems to me that they were more powerful than they ought to be. It occurred to me that the offshore attack might allow them to ignore city walls AND coastal fortresses. Has anybody ever considered this and explored to see whether it's true?

	22-11-2000 10:41									#16
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My theory is the Railroad reduces the value of the Marines.

With the right combo of offensive and defensive units, you can rip through AI civs with well honed strategies as detailed on these forums. The AI always builds railroads in every square of his territory. (that always annoys me, I only build railroads for shield production and access/transportation purposes-- does anyone build railroads the way the AI does?)

To really make the attack work, I use the spy to knock down city walls, level the defense with artillery, then move your fast moving units to capture city and exploit the blitzkrieg!!!!!

For non-Railroaded civs or numerous island maps, I prefer the coastal bombardment/air bombardment then drop the paratrooper in. Works everytime and you get faster results. There is nothing more frustrating than the AI sub ambush on your transports carrying Marines.

I have never been able to build the Marines fast enough to put them on the wood ships. Marines are too slow. Strategy and positioning can make up for the increase defense advantage of Marines versus Rifleman.

	22-11-2000 12:07									#17
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actually I used to build railroads everywhere until I found out that they really didn't increase trade by 1 in all the squeares with roads . One of those things I never knew until I came here. Same with railroads increasing shield production. Oh well.

marines? I built them my first couple of civ games, never again. And even then I built them for defensive purposes. Now I build alpine, mech inf.

	22-11-2000 13:22									#18
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Playing conquest on a large map, I always have a couple of cities with port fcilities who build up my transport/escort fleet. Where's the point having several battleships/AEGIS-cruisers who can't protect your assault force because they're non-vets? IMO, eighty shields for a city which spents hundreds of shields for vet-ships is a good investment.

	22-11-2000 17:58									#19
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I just finished an interesting game last night. SP, deity, raging, small world, ICS... got the picture?

Anyway, halfway through the game, it was becoming obvious that the Aztecs were pulling away in research. Add to that the fact that they were located on another continent/archipelago and developing a fleet of destroyers and I had no choice but to build port facilities.

One of the more dramatic turnaround victories in my distinguished (?) Civ2 career.

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	22-11-2000 20:35									#20
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debeest - City Walls have the same effect whether Marines attack from land or sea. The Coastal Fortress only protects a city from naval bombardment - nothing else.
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SG (2)

	22-11-2000 20:36									#21
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I do build Port Facilities in cities close to the enemy and in newly captured cities where I need a quick repair of my damaged battleships and cruisers. I build them to get the benefit of quick repairing more so than vet status. With Sun Tzu’s active, vet status comes easily on a quick bombardment of an engineer or cannon on the enemy’s shores.

I’ve recently started building more Marines because they provide great defense before Mobile Warfare is discovered and for the simple fact that I like a varied Army/Navy. Sure, Alpine Troops and Calvary do the job in almost any war, but throw a few Marines in the mix…now that’s fun!

	29-11-2000 21:57									#22
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I'm with Bohlen on the fun part. I build at least one of every unit just for the mix. Some of you would be surprised to learn that, with Magellen's, a fleet of subs and transports can conquer the world. Try out different mixes, it keeps the spirit alive.

	30-11-2000 10:39									#23
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I seldom build marines either, but will go for the tech just to have port facilities cuz I always try to build vet ships. Often they are far from home and want them to have every advantage.
for the amount of resource/gold invested in bigger ships especially, I want to minimize the possibility of loosing them.



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