21-11-2000 04:26									#1
	Four Starting Techs? Increase the size of your Attachments

I just started a Deity, Raging Hordes, jtworldh gigamap world as the Romans when it gave me four starting techs. Has anyone else seen this? It was really weird. The techs were Alphabet, Bronze Working, Currency, and Code of Laws. I've got the saved game as proof.

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	21-11-2000 04:52									#2
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Four starting techs is nothing. I've gotten over half a dozen, sometimes including Monarchy.

I play as the Americans, so I won't get the better starting places. The lower you rae on the list, the worse your starting location is and the more techs you get as compensation. Playing the purple civ will probably give you loads of techs, while white civs typically get very few.

You also get extra techs if you start really close to another civ. That could be the cause here.

	21-11-2000 05:04									#3
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Well, I have never seen four before. I play as the Mongols normally and usually only get 1 starting tech. The closest civ to me in this game is the French.

	21-11-2000 07:49									#4
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On emperor level, I was once gifted with

Irrigation, Mining, Alphabet, Bronzeworking, Ceremonial Burial, Code of Laws, Currency, Pottery, Trade, Roads and two settlers

So: 7 Techs (Proper)
2 Settlers
3 Given Techs.

(I know this because I was about to make a thread about this very same topic.)

	21-11-2000 14:58									#5
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It is currently very much 'under construction'. but if you go to our 'Deity Start Archive' under our Web page http://www.stusdomain.org.uk/Civilization/ you will find several 7 tech starts and an 8 tech start - SG2 is the expert, but I don't think we have ever seen more than 8 starting techs ...

Good civin'

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	21-11-2000 18:17									#6
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8 is the most that I've ever seen.
But it has been awhile since I played a straight up SP game.

RAH

	21-11-2000 19:25									#7
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I'm not sure that I go with the "poor start position = more starting techs idea. If I'm remembering right I've had arctic/antarctic starts with no additional starting techs and the odd three special starts (with good surrounding terrain) plus extra techs on top.

But I must admit that since I read of the theory I have been on the lookout for a clear case where it didn't seem to fit and, so far, one has not come up.

Never had a monarchy start but read of it once before.

Someone posted that proximity to warlike AI civs (the Zulus were cited, I think) attracts compensation by extra tech/s. I could not support that one from impiric evidence either.

My own suspicion remains that it is largely random up to a maximum of 8 but that there is a cycle so that for a few games there will be none, then some games with one or two extras, then some with three or four, cycling up to 8 and then working back down to none. I say that because I recently tried out a starting tactic in which you build several settlers while having one city at size 1 and I had to reject a sequence of random starts because I wanted a river site for the capital. As each map was generated the above cycle seemed to operate.

	21-11-2000 21:14									#8
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I can vouch for the reality of getting more techs when close to other civs. Once I got about half a dozen techs even though I started on a river in good terrain. It turned out that the Vikings were close by. Similar things have happened in other games.

	22-11-2000 00:05									#9
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I think it is pretty safe to say that civs close by, must be on the same continent in order to receive extra techs. I have started on two city islands with no neighbors , crappy land (an island) and two civs on landmasses next to mine, only one water space away, and received no tech on more than one occassion. Anyone else seen this. Leads me to believe that you need to be on the same land mass. Then again , it could all just be random , making me look like an idiot

	22-11-2000 00:57									#10
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Mostly, in SP, I get more when on a small island, in barren terrain, or with a close neighbor. In fact, I regard four or more as a warning of an aggressive neighbor. Works out that way most of the time. One, two, even three can be random. Never seen more than six, never seen Monarchy. However, once ran into a neighbor two moves into the game who offered Monarchy in trade for one of mine. He must have had it from the start.

	22-11-2000 02:57									#11
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I have had ten techs(7 plus the standard irrigation,mining, and roads). There is some randomness, but proximity to another civ and the initial terrain are factors.

	22-11-2000 05:47									#12
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The area I started in to get 7 techs had all 7 civs extremely close on a real world map

ex: I was Romans; Vikings, Babylonians, Persians, Egyptians, Indians, English

What is the color I omitted so I can figure which other civ started?

	22-11-2000 06:51									#13
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Dark Cloud you got them all. i agree with the theory that more techs generally means an agressive neighbor, but then early in the game , anyone can be agressive neighbor, even the babylonians, who historically conquered the weak until they too were considered weak by many other nations

I don't remember where i saw this post, i think it might have been in the ctp2 section , but someone commented how empires rise and fall, and lets face it, the ai rises and falls, but the human never does. Such a shame, like the poster stated, it makes it clear half way through the game who is going to win.

	30-11-2000 04:24									#14
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Once I got

Alpha
Bronze
Currency
Trade
Ceremonial
Code of Laws
Monarchy

What a start!!



I have never seen the rare mapmaking start, although I have heard of it

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	30-11-2000 05:38									#15
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i have never seen map making either , i think it is rumour

	30-11-2000 12:54									#16
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Mercantile - see SG2's 'A is for Alphabet' thread ...


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____________
Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor
"The Great Library must be built!"
"A short cut has to be challenging,
were it not so it would be 'the way'." - Paul Craven
[This message has been edited by Scouse Gits (edited November 30, 2000).]