01-08-2001 04:47									#1
	Screenshots Inflate your Upload Space

can someone explain to me how some people (pessimists) on this website can say "civ wont be any inovation, have you seen the screenshots " and not be flamed?

A:you play the game not the graphics
B:wasent this the "grafics dont make a game, gameplay does site
C:I'm probably the only person who will say this but i LIKE those screenshots.

people like Yin aren't constructive critcists, they just hate Civ3 for some unknown reason. if they didn't they would actually have a discussion that wasen't this: "how can you say this is a big leap forward? all the pessemists are right becouse they have proof. have you seen the screenshots"- how can you say that that is a discussion? i have yet to see them have any ability to attack civ3's gameplay, just the graphics.

the only things ive heard about gameplay are

bugs- the possibility that due to lack off testing it will be filled with bugs- all games have them, as long as it dosen't ruin the game (ctp2), it will be ok. besides, who says they dont play the game enough to fix em.
AI-the game wont be able to handle the new features- they will or the company wont have a game and they know it! besides, we really cant discuss this due to lack of info.

thats what i got to say! discuss

	01-08-2001 06:00									#2
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I like the screenshots too. They're still working on a few things, but overall I like the look the game has.

I think the game will be able to handle the changes in the end, because ultimately they will only add changes that it can handle. If by the end of the deadline something ain't working, it probably won't make the cut.

Firaxis might not know what is in or out until the very final stretch, when it has to make the hard choices.

Phutnote

	01-08-2001 06:06									#3
	Put an end to popups!

all it comes down to with the graphics, is can i tell what's what.

i dont want to have to squint to tell what a unit, or a terrain improvement.

i'm also HOPING (odd for pessimists) that the jpeg compression is the culprit here.

	01-08-2001 08:45									#4
	Inflate your Upload Space

To be honest, I see very little wrong with the screen-shots. I can tell what-is-what, and they are reasonably aesthetic. True, they are nothing to rave about, but Civ has never been about the graphics....has it?

	01-08-2001 11:59									#5
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Splangy, Sean, Phutnote, and whoever else likes the look of these screenshots

The graphics may look cooler (not temp. either) than all other Civ games but that doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is if it is clear. These screenshots show that the graphics aren't clear. You people who say you don't mind these graphics are actually the people who care the most about graphics. True graphic fanatics care most about how cool they are. Not about the clearity. You like these graphics because they look much cooler than Civ2. I don't like these graphics because they are very unclear. I can barely make out what thing is which. Give me clearity before coolness, which in turn would mean give me Civ2's graphics before Civ3's graphics.

	01-08-2001 13:02									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: People like Yin aren't constructive critcists, they just hate Civ3 for some unknown reason.

You are starting to bore me. I've given you many chances to be constructive with me, yet you aren't. People who have been around awhile know exactly what I've done or tried to do for Civ 3 while you sit here ignorantly saying I 'hate' Civ 3.

You are clueless.

	01-08-2001 13:09									#7
	Got spare money?

As TechWins noted, my complaint has been about clarity of the graphics, which from what we've seen is lacking. Then again, nobody knows for sure how old those screens are. And the very FACT that we know so little about gameplay and AI this close to a release (oh, and MP), opens the door for us as fans to say: "Hey, what's going on?"

And when all we really have to work with is vague graphics and a vitural blackout for information, then it doesn't take too much imagination to start asking tough questions. Add to it that Firaxis says the graphics are the best ever in the genre, and one starts to think: "Either they have vastly upgraded those graphics from the screenshot days or they are diluted. Either way, updated shots would tell the story, so where are they?"

The fact is, I'm one of the biggest supporters of a hugely successful Civ 3 around here. I've donated literally hundreds of hours to the effort with the List. etc. And I'd also like to think that I along with other posters here have started discussions that helped Civ 3 along the way. While I could be totally wrong, the limited edition idea seems at least helped by my thread started back in March 2000 (who knows, though...).

So, Splangy, take the trolling elsewhere. Until you do anything else BUT troll by dropping my name and putting words in my mouth, I see no sense in repeating myself.

	01-08-2001 13:46									#8
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The color palet looks SMAC like in my view, I would prefere a more civ2(or even ctp2) color palet. That is the biggest problem and not a detail like roads that flies(the road should not go over the mountain but under it in a tunnel in my view). A good color palet gives a clear, fun to look to game(I hope we can edit the palet they use but I doubt it, never saw a game that allowed it).

	01-08-2001 13:53									#9
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

the rule of thumb is that one should immediately realize what terrain/unit he is looking at.
now to rave about civ2 graphics is a bit too much. civ1 was also very 'clear' and i had no problems distinguishing tanks and infantry in 'empire'

	01-08-2001 14:53									#10
	Get a bigger avatar today!

How many times does it need to be pointed out that JPEG compression makes a significant loss of quality, especially to something that is as detailed as that. You are overscrutinising...

	01-08-2001 15:26									#11
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You will be able to understand what each unit is easily - in screenshots they're static, but when they move, it's pretty easy to see what it is. Go Firaxis, go Sid!

	01-08-2001 16:35									#12
	Get a bigger avatar today!

yin, I know absolutely that you have done much good for Civ3, but in the last time you have changed!

Earlier, I was thinking "oh, yin has responded! Let's hear what he has to say!" It was always interested to read your thoughts.

But in the last months or so, you have been more and more...what should I say? boring! Now it's like "oh, no! yin has posted something again! am I able to read that now, I'm tired of his thoughts...!"

I hope this is just something short, and that you soon will be as before, yin. Good luck!

	01-08-2001 16:43									#13
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Nikolai:

Thanks for the kind word and the criticism. Yes, I agree with you. That is why I have decided not to post anything more negative or positive until more information comes. We all tried to guess and second guess with just the little information over the last month, and, indeed, it bored me, too. LOL!

	01-08-2001 16:47									#14
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by yin26 Nikolai: Thanks for the kind word and the criticism. Yes, I agree with you. That is why I have decided not to post anything more negative or positive until more information comes. We all tried to guess and second guess with just the little information over the last month, and, indeed, it bored me, too. LOL!

nikolai: we have all pieces of the puzzle now! everyone wondered how it happened that yin gave sidgolf idea.....
YIN = SID
just think about it: who is the most brilliant guy you met here on forum? who is the only guy whose mind matches that of the SID himself? i need not say more...

	01-08-2001 18:14									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I like the screenshots, too. What would be like, if I would open a poll asking this question... I think this would bve a wonderful poll! Yeah, sure! I just have to check there aren't any other polls like that.

	01-08-2001 23:22									#16
	Put an end to popups!

Oh no. Not another POLL

	02-08-2001 12:18									#17
	Increase Your PM Length

Personally I like the new graphics and I'm sure that the end results will look better than the screenshots that have been posted. After all, the screenshots are months old. Now, before you flame me, read the rest:

I like the new graphics yes, but I don't know if I will like how they affect gameplay. We are talking about a game that has dozens of units, terrains, cities, etc. A game that often takes tens of hours to play; for one game. A game that will be run full-size on a monitor that is at least 15 inches (usually). What have we seen? A dozen or so outdated, shrunk down, compressed screenshots. I think that until we start to play the game we can't really say how the graphics affect the game. Until then, I'm going to say that they look nice.

	02-08-2001 16:11									#18
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Sabre2th Oh no. Not another POLL

Does this sequence of smilies mean you are winking when you sleep? BTW Wake up, life's so nice, with all those babes outside.

	02-08-2001 16:28									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I personally really like the look of the screenshots. They are a different style than what appeared in CTP2, but I really think the way they are done give the game a much more epic feel than the graphics of CTP2. And I also agree with everyone else, they are shrunken compressed JPEG images. I bet once you see the graphics full screen with all the movement and everything I bet even Yin will be impressed. Oh, by the way, will somebody larify the whole Yin = Sid thing?! Thanks!!

	02-08-2001 16:48									#20
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There’s much unfounded optimism here (compression my ass, the graphics department are working for a rival). Who hired these people?!?

I’m beginning to wonder how blind optimists can win games of civ (“my army’s been wiped off the face of the planet but never mind, I’ve still got a battleship, a submarine and a few pikemen left. I’ll win the war comfortably.”).

	02-08-2001 17:19									#21
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as we all know, a fortified pikeman was worth 10 tanks in previous civ installments

	02-08-2001 21:45									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Trdi Does this sequence of smilies mean you are winking when you sleep? BTW Wake up, life's so nice, with all those babes outside.

I want to get as much sleep as possible now so I can play civ3 for a month and a half straight when it comes out