13-11-2000 15:07									#31
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Whale or silk, definitely!

	13-11-2000 19:21									#32
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This is so interesting that there is such diversity among Civ2 players. I have only recently been made aware of a tactic that I don't think has been mentioned in this thread. I love wine on a hill. But the secret is to mine it! Then you get, the food, the money, the production, the whole enchilada. And if you can slip in a road/railroad, wow!

I also like desert oil that's been irrigated and roaded. Pretty potent and it holds its own for food.

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	13-11-2000 19:58									#34
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In MP Double Production, give me gold at the start, and I will build my capital on it every time unless the there is absolutely nothing else around it. That, way I can use the other specials in the pattern for my second city. I can usually get into monarchy by the 3050 break. Granted, the city will never grow fast, but that's what the other cities are for

Whales and Silk are also my favorites...

	13-11-2000 20:24									#35
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If you can find gold without too many additional mountains in a potential city radius, build on it. You get one food from it that way, along with other inputs. Same for iron. Problem is mountains come in bunches with hills around them. Makes it hard. Gold or iron near a river is perfect. Otherwise, my favorites are whales to exploit and bananas to build on.

	13-11-2000 20:38									#36
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Actually, Blaupanzer, my favorite secondary square next to a gold/iron city is ocean. Then your enemies can't starve your city by occupying your food squares. As Ming implied, you don't need to grow this city; its purpose is to generate lots of shields or arrows.

Another great thing about building a city on top of a trade square is that it adds an automatic road, for +1 trade. Instead of spending several turns of settler effort (or having to wait for bridge building if it's a river square), you get the road right now. In the case of several of the specials, you also pick up an extra food and/or shield.

	14-11-2000 10:53									#38
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Ideally I like a capital in a river delta which takes advantage of two or three specials. With the Gardens and/or the Collossus this is going to be a powerhouse throughout the game.

But otherwise I sometimes build on a special, sometimes not. Agree about gold but rarely get that lucky.

Like to build secondary cities on Buffalo - especialy ones that are miles from water. The automatic road/irrigation saves a lot of work.

The water point is well made. One thing I hate is when you found a city expecting to get the benefit of working a whale square only to find that there is an unsuspected AI city already using it. Pinching use of land specials off the AI is like taking candy off a baby but nothing can be done about a whale square short of taking the city - and even after that both cities can't (usually anyway) use it at once.

For some reason never tried founding on fruit. Have to give it a try. Although making good use of high food production is not my strong suit. I've got a current game going in which my capital is on a river with use of rivered pheasant and two wheat. I reckoned that I could use the capital as a settler factory but am not handling it well. (It's an interesting game though. I'm stuck in a corner of a water world and have met no-one for ever and a day. It's a specials rich map and by the pace at which the AI is building WoWs there are going to be some powerful civs out there when I finally get to meet them. I had to choose between Marco Polo's and Lighthouse as my only early wonder and went for Lighthouse. OK I'm getting behind in techs but I'm in charge of my research path and (SG you'll like this) - the SUPER IRONCLADS are gonna rule OK!)

Sadly thougfh, gotta go and play bridge now so it might be to-morrow night before I get to the next installment. Unless, of course, I play for a little when I get home around midnight - just one turn, of course.

	13-11-2000 23:04									#39
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Ming i was playing a game yesterday, actually all day a few games, and i built my first three cities on gold and wine. Ironically i got Monarchy by 3200BC but had to "wait" three turns before the revolution could take place. Thank evolution that the despot leader didn't find out my vile plans and have me shot for treason
IN x2 production, it foolish not to build on special resources like wine and gold, or spice. Sure you dont get the four special pattern, it just means you can build four smaller cities instead, and never lose you specials, unless the city is destroyed of course. Nothing worse than that four special spot and having some character park on your special when your out drinking with the military advisor

	14-11-2000 05:08									#41
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Julius i really think its all about production. In x2 you may as well build on the special especially in a small world where they players are cuthroat when it comes to specials. In normal produciton i build only on specials if i am bottlenecking, otherwise i too prefer the perfectionist style.

	14-11-2000 23:05									#42
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I really like whale for early on, but later on i prefer iron and wine. The latter especially in a river with road and superhighways.

I am very fond of desert oil, though. You can build rail, mine and airbase it.

	14-11-2000 23:42									#43
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My favorite type of special is the river. It gives trade, defense, and movement. With a representative government, colossus, and superhighways, all improved river squares will produce six trade. I think a good river system can help you more than any other special. Rivered forests are especially nice. Since roads add trade to these squares, you can easily get three shields and three trade out of these. It's a real bonus when you can turn a rivered grassland into a rivered pheasant or silk.

	15-11-2000 01:23									#44
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HSFB, can you get wine in a river? On my maps, wine is on a hill and hills don't have rivers running through them. This is 2.42 version. Is it different in others?

	15-11-2000 04:11									#46
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One time I had three cities by the second turn, thanks to a river and a goody hut. That same game I also got a lot of free techs because I started close to the Vikings. I crushed them of course; why does the computer think this is a disadvantage?

You have to terraform terrain to get rivers through hills. It's worth it for perfectionists, however. In the right circumstances, a fully improved rivered coal can give 7 production and 6 trade.
[This message has been edited by Richard Bruns (edited November 14, 2000).]

	15-11-2000 12:37									#47
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I recently encountered a river on a hill. I hadn't terraformed anything -- I rarely do. Sure caught me by surprise; I don't think I'd seen one before. So I guess it can happen, and it makes a pretty nice square.

	15-11-2000 16:57									#48
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I,ve read once ortwice of a rivered mountain - can't remeber whether it was said to have occurred naturally but one reference was to rivered gold so I suspect it was some effect of terraforming.

Love to see it tho'. Always love it when something crops up in a game that I've not seen before. OCC is good for that.

	16-11-2000 10:14									#50
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Can't terraform to mountains. But terraforming river squares to hills never even occurred to me. I love this forum! A rivered gold square would be literally "gilding the lily."

	15-11-2000 23:15									#51
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Actually, I find that rivers are most helpful on squares that normally proviede no trade, like hills or forests. The river giving trade means that republic or democracy and colossus will each give another arrow when they wouldn't before. Also, roads on river squares will always add a trade. So the river essentially adds three to six arrows when on a non-trade terrain, and only one when on a trade terrain. A rivered coal would IMO be better than a rivered gold.

	17-11-2000 20:03									#53
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Yes, you need colossus and superhighways to get the six trade. One for river, one for road, one for government, one for colossus, and add 50% with superhighways to get six. The colossus makes the difference betwen 4 and 6.

	17-11-2000 21:15									#54
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The lack of a trade arrow explains the pheasant's lack of popularity in this thread. But (as I think another poster mentioned here or elsewhere) add a river and it's a different story. Not only do you get one arrow straight away but road, higher form of gov.t and superhighways all have that base arrow to bite on.

In such a case, give me pheasant to dine upon and I'm happy!

Building on a rivered pheasant early is good. You get the second trade arrow from the automatic road on the city's home square - all those shields get the city off to a flying start (with an automatic extra shield to come when railroad is researched) and the defence bonus of the river and the forest is aggregated so the city is very defensible. Great stuff!!

By the way, I can never resist a quick deviation from my research path when bridge building becomes an option. There is usually a lot to be done at that stage in the game so I'm not sure that this is always the optimal choice - but I just love getting the settlers to work on those river bridges. I've usually got some domestic trade routes in place to cities working river squares by then and one or two extra trade arrows will soon get those routes paying off with another arrow or two - and at both ends of the route.

Just gotta agree that the river is special. And a rivered special is extra special!

What a pity you can't get a rivered whale!!!

	17-11-2000 21:55									#55
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An interesting possibility just popped into my head. With all the talk about terraforming, what if...

you terraformed an oil-producing desert square to a mountain and then built a mine? Would you still have the oil? How many shields would this puppy produce? Wow!

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	17-11-2000 21:59									#56
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if you terraform the desert you lose the oil. you can just mine the oil to boost production.

[This message has been edited by ColdWizard (edited November 17, 2000).]

	18-11-2000 10:51									#57
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Interesting. I'll have to try this tonight. Thanks.

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	18-11-2000 12:10									#58
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On 2x I like Seals the most. I always colonize the artic.

	19-11-2000 07:02									#59
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Yes, rivered pheasants are good. You can often mine rivered grasland into a rivered pheasant.

Oil is good because you can get 7 shields and some trade. Coal gives a food and 7 shields, but no trade.

	24-11-2000 05:39									#60
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To irrigate Pheasant/r into Buffalo/r is still one shield plus one arrow better though, with equal food (after farmland).

If you wish, you can also transform the Pheasant/r or Buffalo/r into Grassland(s)/r and then Coal/r.

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