01-08-2001 18:16									#1
	How do you like the screenshots? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I really like the question. Now we'll see all those clubs...

Last edited by Trdi on 01-08-2001 at 18:26

	01-08-2001 20:23									#2
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I think generally, the overall graphics are ok given that we can't see the detail really well given the compression of the screen shots. Firaxis certainly needs to fix the roads, the units are not very clear, and some of the color choices are questionable. On the other hand, the I think the terrain looks good.

	01-08-2001 20:40									#3
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Well, that must be the "polishing", doesn't it?

	01-08-2001 21:42									#4
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People will probably attack me for this, but I like the graphics. The compression makes it a little hard to tell, but I think the units will be easily discernable in-game. The terrain colors aren't perfect, but they aren't horrible. And there's no way that hovering road can be in the final game.

Damn you pessimists

	01-08-2001 21:44									#5
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quote: hovering road

Somewhere over the rainbow.......

	01-08-2001 23:56									#6
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These screenshots are the ugliest thing I've ever seen. I know even in the Civ3 clip, that was about a minute and ten seconds, the graphics still didn't look clear. If the graphics still don't even look good on video, when are they going to look good? I'm sure they will look good when we finally play game but from what we've seen so far they don't look clear. You can't deny that.

	02-08-2001 00:23									#7
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How can you base this on the video?? The video is a grainy shakycam -- it couldn't give much of a demo of anything specific, just a little peek for us.

	02-08-2001 02:03									#8
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Graphics do not make a game (at least, not one like Civ), so why bother hating on the graphics? I still play MOO2. How are the graphics in MOO2 relative to, say, Quake III? They're terrible! But for some reason I keep playing MOO2 anyway.

	02-08-2001 02:20									#9
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I like the graphics, sure there's something they really need to change (did someone mention a hovering road ), but the gameplay is more important than graphics

	02-08-2001 04:23									#10
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quote: How can you base this on the video?? The video is a grainy shakycam -- it couldn't give much of a demo of anything specific, just a little peek for us.

All I'm saying is that from what we've (maybe I should say I instead of we) seen the graphics aren't clear. I haven't seen the E3 so maybe the graphics look clear in that. I'm not sure how the final graphics will look but from all the screenshots and the single video I've watched the graphics aren't clear. I will admit that the graphics looked very clear in the resource preview, though.

quote: Graphics do not make a game

Of course they don't. Gameplay is the most important part of the game but clearity is a big part of the game also. If you have to strain your eyes miserablely time after time trying to find out what unit that is or whatever, then the game is no longer fun. I want to be able to recognize units, etc... right off the bat, like in Civ2. Is that really so much to ask for? Don't take my words out of context here, like you people do with Yin.

	02-08-2001 05:23									#11
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I like the graphics. The irrigation tiles everyone complains about certainly look more realistic than one-pixel blue lines in Civ2 and the hovering road would definitely not be in the final version. Subtract JPEG compression and add animations and it becomes even better!

	02-08-2001 05:40									#12
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quote: Originally posted by TechWins These screenshots are the ugliest thing I've ever seen. I know even in the Civ3 clip, that was about a minute and ten seconds, the graphics still didn't look clear. If the graphics still don't even look good on video, when are they going to look good? I'm sure they will look good when we finally play game but from what we've seen so far they don't look clear. You can't deny that.

Sorry - I misread your post. The e3 video was very low quality.

I went back and watched the trailer again and the graphics really didn't look bad. I think they were just shrunk down too much for the clip.

	02-08-2001 05:44									#13
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Generally, I am a firm believer of the theory that graphics does not make the game. However, since my disappointment that Civ3 would not ty to implement the rise and fall of civilizations concept, I have begun to doubt this theory. Civ3 graphics resembled glorified Civ2, not an distant cousin as Civ2 was to Civ1. I would have believed that they would at least try to iplment the SMAC concept of varying grades of terrain, but my hope seems to have been in vain. My only consolence is that it could change and that at least better graphics would ensure taht Firaxias makes enough of a profit to try with a Civ4 later on.

	02-08-2001 05:51									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Shadowstrike Civ3 graphics resembled glorified Civ2, not an distant cousin as Civ2 was to Civ1. I would have believed that they would at least try to iplment the SMAC concept of varying grades of terrain, but my hope seems to have been in vain. My only consolence is that it could change and that at least better graphics would ensure taht Firaxias makes enough of a profit to try with a Civ4 later on.

I'm not even going to comment on this.

	02-08-2001 16:17									#15
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Few hours ago I played Civ 1 and it's great. This game really kicks ass.

	02-08-2001 17:03									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Trdi Few hours ago I played Civ 1 and it's great. This game really kicks ass.

Which is why Civ3 had better be revolutionary (in every detail). There's much at stake here, a badly-done sequel will take the veneer off the whole Civ family.

	02-08-2001 22:07									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Recurve Which is why Civ3 had better be revolutionary (in every detail). There's much at stake here, a badly-done sequel will take the veneer off the whole Civ family.

What?

CtP I and II were sequels/offshoots of the series and well they were not well done sequels. Yet did they kill the Civ family?

No, I am still arguing and discussing the series here.

The same goes for some people with SMAC. They didn't like it, I happened to find many of the changes enjoyable and I love the PBEM games that I play with a couple of my friends. But could it kill the series? No.

Sure Civ III failing will hurt TBS, but other series like MoO are evolving in new directions and look to be solid for the third release. EU did really well and a sequel/expansion is in the works with more nations involved to play. Imperialism did well. And of course there is always SM's Colonization to make a sequel of. TBS is still doing well and I for one do not believe that it will die if Civ III is not great.

	02-08-2001 22:37									#18
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I absolutely love the overall look. Two problems:

1) Mountains, mountains, mountains. 'Nuff said.

2)WTF is up with the pink/purple civ colouring? Not my cup of tea, although I suppose that it can easily be changed a la units.gif (or something similar)

	03-08-2001 00:19									#19
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quote: Originally posted by tniem CtP I and II were sequels/offshoots of the series and well they were not well done sequels. Yet did they kill the Civ family?

Very nearly.

	03-08-2001 01:14									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Recurve Very nearly.

How?

Civ III was in the planning stages while CtP II was being built.

Meanwhile games such as SMAC and Imperialism were made. The grand EU was released and now a sequel looms. MoO3 was getting started. How did CtP almost kill TBS games?


Look I wish Civ III would be a highly revolutionary game - I after all got bored with Civ II because it was too much like Civ I for my tastes. But that does not mean one bad game will kill the genre or the series. I think the graphics will not help spreading the genre but I don't see TBS future hinging on Civ III, it could help or hurt it but kill it? I just don't think so.

	03-08-2001 01:45									#21
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Some of the folks here are being stupidly impractical when it comes to the graphics. Don't they realize how customizable they will be?? For example, alot of Civ2 players use Tim Smith's HiRes "modpack" where every single unit and terrain has been customized. And there are many more examples of this. Even if you love or hate (or just grow bored with) the current Civ3 terrain graphics, you can replace them with something better or different!

Why is this such a hard concept for some to understand?

	03-08-2001 02:43									#22
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quote: As far as your opinion on the graphics, all I can do is say what I've been saying for quite some time, which is that you should wait until the game is released before passing judgment on the graphics. Many of the screenshots floating around the net are *months* old, and we are still in development. Dan

'Nuff said

	03-08-2001 03:18									#23
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quote: 'Nuff said

Passing judgements on what we have seen so far is fine. I happen to think what we've seen so far doesn't look too good but that's my opinion. Passing judgements on something we haven't seen (a finished Civ3) shouldn't be done. Unless you're Yin who can see into the future ('My Review of Civ3').

quote: Why is this such a hard concept for some to understand?

It is because usually when people pay for something they want a good finished product. Not something that they are going to have to fix if they want it to their liking. It should already be good and to their liking if they paid for it.

It's kind of like if you get your brakes fixed. Lets say you pay $100 to the mechanice for them to get fixed. You think you should have a good finished product. As you're driving home from the car shop, you notice your breaks don't work very well. It's no big deal, though, because when you get home you can fix them yourself. You only paid the mechanice to make you think you got a good product, not to actually get a good product. Is that how you want the game to be? Maybe they should leave you all the work for programming the AI too. You would like that, huh? I mean it's not a problem you can always do it yourself.

	03-08-2001 03:28									#24
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But that would be true if it was an objective condition (like brakes). Let's say they make a nice looking road through the mountains, would you call that 'finished' or 'complete'? I wouldn't because I may not even like the default mountain terrain, let alone how they run through the terrain. The same for any unit as well. Remember, the initial graphics that showed the Musketeer/Riflemen? Who's to say that (any of the alternatives) is the 'proper' or 'right' one to depict right of the box? Every single graphics for terrain tiles and units are subjective, there can be no right or wrong one. So to say that one represents a finished product just doesn't make any sense at all.

	03-08-2001 03:31									#25
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What I was suggesting is fairly simple. We do know the screenshots so far are disappointing. We also know there have been changes made. We therefore do not know how it looks at the moment. (Okay I'll grant you there probably haven't been wholesale changes, but the point stands.) Picking at lack of polish is something of a moot point.

	03-08-2001 07:20									#26
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hahahahha pink french.

it never gets old.

	03-08-2001 13:59									#27
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Steve,

I agree the graphics should be able to be easily customizable. It adds a great touch having a lot of customizability. [Off Topic] In fact right now (past few days) I've been customizing the rules.txt and units.gif, in Civ2MGE, more to my looking. I'm adding new units so I'm actually not fixing anything, I'm only adding graphics. [On Topic] The thing is many people don't want to have to fix that road over the mountain graphic. They want to have these things already done when they first play the game. Not to say that it (road over mountain) will be in Civ3. when it's finished The graphics should be customizable but they should also already look good without customization.

quote: Picking at lack of polish is something of a moot point.

What should we rehash the civ specific units thing again? No, so we have to discuss something else. The only new info. (released) we have are screenshots. Which leads us to the conclusion of discussing screenshot graphics.