03-08-2001 02:39									#1
	Experienced Workers? Support Apolyton

Lets say that it takes 10 turns for a worker to irrigate something. So after he makes 15 irrigations it will take him only 9 turns.

Nothing really important, but adds a little bit interest and complexity to the game.

(the numbers can be different of course)

	03-08-2001 03:08									#2
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Interesting concept. I like the idea a lot. Also, if they're gonna put in great military leaders in the game and maybe great artists, why not great builders? to speed up terraforming.

How would they get veteranship though, random? Number of jobs? Number of years existence?

	03-08-2001 03:14									#3
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How about certain terrain upgrades that only can be built by experienced builders? More advanced things lika fortesses, canals etc.

	03-08-2001 03:43									#4
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Re: How do they get Veteranship?

Combat experience, obviously.

	03-08-2001 04:49									#5
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Not a bad idea. Now where's that damn civ4 forum....

	03-08-2001 05:08									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Sabre2th Not a bad idea. Now where's that damn civ4 forum....

Yeah... This is what annoys me the most.

	03-08-2001 05:29									#7
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I like the idea, but as down th'pub points out, you need combat experience to get veteran workers.

So perhaps veteran workers could come about after a lot of experience at terraforming, eg, after so many terrain improvements build, there would be a chance of him being 'promoted' on each further terraform. It would be slow, but as the game goes along and these units accrue experience, there is a greater chance that they become veterans...not a bad idea eh?

	03-08-2001 05:50									#8
	Public works Got spare money?

The speed of public works does not depend on the experience of the workers but the ratio of public works employees to shovels. The more workers you have leaning on shovels the slower your work is going to go. Also, under governments such as monarachy or despotism where workers are going to get a beating for shirking then work will proceed very quickly. After the discovery of trade unions the speed of public works is going to slow down tremendously. Hey, let's have a little realism in the game.

	03-08-2001 05:53									#9
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Civ3 doesn't use the public works model, it uses workers

	03-08-2001 07:18									#10
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i dont think we're talking about VERTERAN WORKERS as much as we are talking about, EXPIERENCED WORKERS.

your first time digging an irrigation ditch will go a bit slower than your 400th.

	03-08-2001 07:20									#11
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I like this idea. It always aggravated me that the settler(or engineer) that I had for ages took the same time to build something as a new one.

	03-08-2001 12:07									#12
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I also like this concept.

	03-08-2001 14:37									#13
	Support Apolyton

I think an experience model for workers is cool. First you start off with "regulars," who can only do certain things at normal speed. After they have completed so many turns of works they become "veterans," who can build more advanced structures. They also do the regular stuff at an accelarated speed. The next level up are "crack," and the final level is "elite." These guys can build all kinds of things and dig ditches like demons

	03-08-2001 14:43									#14
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This could work, although it is a bit late to implement it in Civ3. Perhaps we are ready for a Civ4 suggestions forum

	03-08-2001 15:42									#15
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Oh yes!!!

Experienced workers are more efficient. No doubt about it. But why would they need combat experience in order to dig a ditch better? Any why does a caravan need to be attacked (and survive) in order to earn more gold when it reaches it's destination?

Workers should become experienced based on the number of turns that they have existed (and been utilized). The same should be true about military units.

It's terrible when all of your veteren legionaires (6a/3d) suddenly become non-vet musketeers (3a/3d). And the only way to make them veteren is to have them get attacked or to kill them and make new ones. Why not allow veteren status after, for example, 10 turns of existance in a city with a barrack. With only one unit being able to take advantage of this option every 10 turns.

	03-08-2001 15:44									#16
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Oh yeah. And after the first successful caravan/freight trade route, the city should have a 50% chance to produce a veteren trade-unit for the 2nd unit and automatically produce a veteren trade-unit when it has produced three or more.

	03-08-2001 15:50									#17
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Caravans are out now Fittstim, read something about the new trade system. So this option isn't really relevent.

	03-08-2001 18:14									#18
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As for the worksers, I believe damage should also be taken in account. Now that units have health, I believe that a half-dead worker should worm slower - how fast can you work when wounded?

	03-08-2001 19:18									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison Civ3 doesn't use the public works model, it uses workers

I wasn't using public works as a game term.

	03-08-2001 19:49									#20
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Workers do get experienced - they upgrade to engineers.

	03-08-2001 20:03									#21
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Nah, not in our sense.

Engineers are an entirely different unit type.

	03-08-2001 20:22									#22
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Hmm well i think the idea of veteran workers seems a bit too much.

Wouldn't it be better to have to kind of units for this?

One more ordinary and quite cheap unit that can do most of the general tasks and a expensive special unit that can do the more advanced stuff like terraforming projects etc that at the same time could do the general stuff at a faster rate.

Another thing I would like are Combat Engineers. I now and then want to build roads, railroads and such at the frontline to speed up and improve my logistics (Achtung Panzer!) but those settlers and engineers are so weak... Better yet make it possible to do some improvements with ordinary footsoldiers, they should be able to build roads and railroads. how hard can it be?

	03-08-2001 21:20									#23
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Talking about terraforming in combat, I hope that we will be able to pillage stuff using catapults. In my current game I used suicider horsemans to cut roads to city I conquered since it was right in the middle of the AI empire and hordes of chariots were attacking me every turn. I was too lazy to conquer the whole empire.

	03-08-2001 21:37									#24
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quote: Originally posted by fittstim It's terrible when all of your veteren legionaires (6a/3d) suddenly become non-vet musketeers (3a/3d). And the only way to make them veteren is to have them get attacked or to kill them and make new ones. Why not allow veteren status after, for example, 10 turns of existance in a city with a barrack. With only one unit being able to take advantage of this option every 10 turns.

One of the list ideas was for a city/terrain improvement (like "training grounds" or something) that would slowly build up the experience of units camped in them, or to allow barracks to slowly build up the experience for units camped in barracks-equipped cities. MOO2 used this idea with the Space Academy: units produced on a planet with a Space Academy gained one level of experience (from Green to Trained), and if the ships remained in orbit around the Space Academy then they would slowly build up experience until they became Veteran (or Elite, if you were a Warlord race). You could also have leaders who were Instructors, and ships orbiting a planet with an Instructor governor would gain experience based on the governor's skill at Instruction.

Who knows if this made it into Civ III, though.

	04-08-2001 03:23									#25
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I agree with this idea as well.

	04-08-2001 03:37									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison This could work, although it is a bit late to implement it in Civ3. Perhaps we are ready for a Civ4 suggestions forum

Actually it is not too late to add such an idea. From a programming standpoint, the ideas in this thread would be fairly easy to add to even a finished game.

	04-08-2001 04:15									#27
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Let's start sending lots of email to the Firaxians.