03-08-2001 11:01									#1
	New PBEM game in proposal, 7 players, newbies to average skill Remove this text

I'd be interested to set up PBEM game with 7 players. The game won't be ranked and it's meant for low to medium skill level players. So if you have nothing better to do(seems very unlikely to me ) file in your request to join.


Suggested settings for the game are as follows...

Huge Map of the World(or random/custom made map sized approximately 64x128)
if not Map of the World
50-70% ocean coverage
average erosion
dense cloud cover
abundant native life
Standard Rules
Original factions
or by request mix of AC&Crossfire human factions


Turn per day is considered as preferred participation frequency, it has to be enough because of different time zones, range and quantity of players in the game.

If someone on this forum has yet to grow up(haven't seen them myself, thanks God) I'd like to mention that cheating is not allowed. Any average player can judge what is cheating and what is not...yes, supporting units from allied bases is. SMACX is a complex game and leaves a lot of room for tampering for those with weak self confidence.

Factions are shared on the basis of "first come, first serve". In case Crossfire human factions are included some discussion from preserving game balance is needed.

	03-08-2001 11:05									#2
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I would be interested in playing the Pirates. I consider myself an average player who is currently going through the learning curve playing a handful of MP games.

	03-08-2001 11:27									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

yea gimme.
I'm a newbie and I don't cheat so I qualify.

I don't know who I want to play as, maybe the Peacekeepers if its only the originals, otherwise the drones (I don't think the drones are any better than the originals anyhow).

	03-08-2001 11:42									#4
	Tired of ads?

You're fast!

Anyway, thanks for booking in. You'll have your factions of choice. We can consider about those Drones, don't think their off balance, so I guess they'll do.

And, I'll book University of Planet. Forgot that...huh

	03-08-2001 17:00									#5
	count me in. Increase the size of your Attachments

sounds great to me. :P I'd like to play the Gaians. Maybe now I can find a life...... if it's located on Planet.

	03-08-2001 19:52									#6
	count me in Remove this text

I'll play the hive. I think the SMAX factions should be allowed with the exception of the aliens. They are by far the most powerful factions. I don't think SMAX was designed very well (the tectonic payload, for example, is plain old stupid). A lot of the factions there are too powerful (cyborgs and pirates for example) but I think they should be allowed anyway.

A rule change that I'd like is: No unity pod scattering.

	03-08-2001 20:47									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Current players

1. EtheMind as University
2. SITS as Pirates(?)
3. ouch! as Drones(/PK)(?)
4. Tubok as Gaians
5. vomitus as Hive
6.
7.

I'm not sure of the Crossfire factions. I'd be interested to hear general point of view. It's a fact that some Crossfire factions have some advantages that tend to be unfair, especially vs original factions. Pirates aren't as unfair in MP game though, not sure about are they all that unfair at all. But please choose yourself an alternative original faction.

quote: A rule change that I'd like is: No unity pod scattering.

Not really against it. Interested to know why? It does darken the game quite a bit for artifact hunters and explorers.


I think we're going to get that 7 players in no time since I've emailed one of my friends about this game and think he will join up.

About other rules: I'd go for no-early communication

	03-08-2001 21:15									#8
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Hello everyone.

I would like to sign-up.

I will take the Cyborgs or the Angels, depending on who EtheMind's friend takes first.

I rather like pod scattering, although I have a higher than average tendency to pop worms or fungal blooms.

	03-08-2001 21:53									#9
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I just got a confirmation and we now have the full 7 players for the game. Our new participant will sign on into Apolyton forums shortly and join the discussion.

I'd like to raise a question about Cyborgs/Pirates. Both of these factions has some serious advantages that other factions may have problem to cope with.

My original intention was to play SMAC factions only, but since many people prefer SMACX factions, we let some of them in. And I don't think anyone could be forced to play Believers anyway ...poor Miriam

Please have some vote about the game settings and factions. I've been known to consider Democratic opinions...by time to time

1-2 days and we're all off preparing our landing pods...

	03-08-2001 22:04									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Ah, EtheMind. I should have read your original post a little more closely. I started seeing players requesting SMACX factions and went that way thinking it was to be a SMACX flavored game.

I will be happy to take any of the original factions. So, once you get the feedback you need from everyone, just assign me whichever original faction is left over. The Believers would be my last choice if more than one original faction is left to choose from, but I will play Miriam if necessary.

I am happy with your original game settings. I like Huge maps best. As mentioned earlier, I would also like to keep the scattered pods. However, I am more than willing to go with the majority on any settings.

	03-08-2001 22:39									#11
	Remove this text

The reason I had chosen the Pirates is because I've never played them before and I wanted to try them out. I willing to swap it but I do not want to be Miriam!

I prefer pod scattering and the rest of the options are fine by me.

	04-08-2001 02:53									#12
	Unity Scattering Tired of ads?

I agree that the pods should be scattered. Why? well imagine a space ship brekaing up... is there really time to "plan" out where the pods will fall? or is it more likely that the "debri" will be "scattered"? With the scattered pods...the game would seem more realistic...adding a touch of the "unknown" to the game. The game wouldn't be as fun if we all knew exactly what to expect. My vote..... have the supply pods scattered.

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	04-08-2001 07:39									#13
	about pods and SMAX factions Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

The SMAX factions are fine in my opinion. All of them are quite powerful with the exception of perhaps the drones and cultists. The aliens are ridiculously overpowered and I don't think they should be allowed. The pirates are extraordinarily powerful for a single player game because it's easy to isolate your cities from enemies and build up. The pirates have huge advantages simply because of their starting location. They also have a huge number of squares they can use to build cities. The conciousness are also incredibly powerful. I'm judging this by their starting bonuses which are high as well as the fact that they gain a tech by conquering a city. Even though I think the two aforementioned factions are more powerful than other factions, I still think they should be allowed.

The reason I don't want unity pod scattering is because it gives the pirates a colossal advantage. The pirates can get more unity pods than any other faction in a short period of time. That's my main objection to them.

	04-08-2001 11:30									#14
	Get a bigger avatar today!

I prefer no pod scattering because its annoying to be wiped out after ten turns by a battle ogre or a bunch of unity rovers.

I'm not against any human factions being in the game. Some have an advantage but its not huge IMO.

I think we need some kind of timezone related turn order. If the order is the same as in the list it won't be good because I have around a 12 hr difference with tubok.
I'm at GMT +10 but I'm around alot of the day as I only go to university if I feel like it (about 20% of the time).

	04-08-2001 22:08									#15
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For the sake of game balance I'll rule Pirates, Consciousness and Progenitors off. The majority prefers scattered pods and since Pirates won't appear in the game, the unwanted effects of scattered pods are less apparent.

No one took any motion for comm policy. But I'd prefer no communication until a real contact. Because of realism and balance for isolated militarists who can't trade as efficiently...I can't believe I'm defending them ...remember this when you contact UoP

1. EtheMind as University
2. SITS as (choose a new one)
3. ouch! as Drones
4. Tubok as Gaians
5. vomitus as Hive
6. Qantage as Angels
7. (should be here shortly)

quote: I think we need some kind of timezone related turn order.

Not a bad idea. I thought of it myself, but I just presumed you were all from USA, except me that is. As a sidenote, I know there're timezones inside US. But it makes less difference of course. I guess we'll see the use of timezone related turns when we find out your timezones...

Mine is +2 GMT

Your timezone please?

	04-08-2001 22:28									#16
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My time zone is Eastern US, GMT -5.

I would also prefer no use of commlinks until obtained through legitimate in-game methods.

	05-08-2001 02:11									#17
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My timezone is GMT (not everyone is American!) but I tend to play my turns in the afternoon or very early in the morning as I work nights...

Bit disappointed about the Pirtates as I wanted to experiment with them. I'm playing a team game where my team-mate is the Pirates and I wanted to get some insight in how to play them.

I would like to be Uni if the pirates are unacceptable

I agree, no contact until we meet.

	05-08-2001 03:20									#18
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Something has came up. So, at this point we have seventh place available in our game. I'm going to go and recruit someone to fill that place. It will not be a problem.

Factions available include: Cult, Spartans, Believers and Peacekeepers

Choice is your's SITS.

And about the timezone related turn order. It's a good idea in theory. But figuring out that some people prefer to go netting afternoon some at the middle of the night. So we should have a great deal of information from our players in order to track their habits of playing SMAC This is a little bit too much challenge before Pre-Sentient Algorithms

	05-08-2001 03:44									#19
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Sorry didn't notice your Uni choice.

I'll chose the Sparts.

Maybe if people post their times then we can work something out.

	05-08-2001 03:48									#20
	time zone turn order Remove this text

Mine is EST (US), which is also -5 GMT.... I think. Question... I thought the turns are already pre-determined by the game, therefore...how can we change it for time zones? Besides...how will that make a difference in the way we take our turns? I'll still be taking my turns sometime in the evening after I get off work...unless it's my day off. Then I could take my turns anytime...and maybe more than once. This is the first time I've ever played a game like this. Just curious....


besides... as far as setting "times" that we take our turns.... some people may not always be able to take their times at the same time each day. And if they miss their 'appointed" time for their turn...that'd throw off everybody's schedule. Isn't this why we're playing PBEM an not a live game?

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Last edited by Tubok on 05-08-2001 at 04:06

	05-08-2001 04:24									#21
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Tubok, the idea is to set an optimum turn order by maximizing the flow according to time zones. It is still PBEM and you are not locked into any time to play, it just cuts down the length of the game over the long run. Although every game takes on its own life, so it is worth thinking about turn order, but not worth losing any sleep over. You just want to make sure you aren't sending the turn from Finland to US then back to England and back over to US. In SMACX, you can set turn order any way you want.

I can play turns from about 4 pm until after midnight on weekdays (2100 - 0600 GMT). I can play turns all day on weekends and even can play during the day on some weekdays.

	05-08-2001 05:03									#22
	Suffering from ads?

Now, if someone has a presentation about optimal turn oder. I'd love to hear it! But considering all the variables present in PBEM game timing. I find it hard to believe we can develop any kind of reliable system of turn orders. Maybe we can send the game from Finland, to UK, and then to USA to minimize the timezone differences but I think that's it.

Now, if everyone would try to play from 2 to 3 turns each day, if possible. Less if you're busy, more if you're on SMAC vacation I think we could get one year every 12 hours. More in some situations, less in some.

1. EtheMind as University
2. SITS as Spartans
3. ouch! as Drones
4. Tubok as Gaians
5. vomitus as Hive
6. Qantage as Angels
7. (empty for now)

I have taken actions to fill that last place. We'll get that 7th player, sooner than later, I hope.

	05-08-2001 05:50									#23
	Game for anything Got spare money?

I'm game for anything that can make the turns go quicker. Or at least give it a try! Normally.... I may get home about 7pm EST and usually try to get to bed by/before 10pm EST, due to me getting up early for work. I check my email as soon as I get home, do whatever that evening, and can try to check email again before I go to bed. My days of (atm) are Sundays & Mondays, and providing nothing is going on, I can check my email multiple times and take my turn if something is waiting for me.

	05-08-2001 06:27									#24
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

There are too many variables to create a reliable turn system, and it shouldn't be worried about too much, but
my original point was just that I shouldn't be passing my turn to Tubok.
I know from experience that the times he is available (after work) is during the morning for me (whilst I am out). So by the time I send him a turn he is usually asleep.

Turn order proposition:
1. EtheMind
2. Ouch!
3. SITS
4. Qantaga
5. Tubok
6. Vomitus (I don't know what timezone, assumed USA)

If Vomitus is around before Qantaga (i.e. before 2100 GMT) then slot him in after SITS.

Its hard to get a correct turn order unless everyone gives their life story. The main thing is just making sure the American players are grouped together.

	05-08-2001 12:51									#25
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Nice to see you've thought it up for us ouch!. Now, it's good idea to time turns, at least, according to continent. Since we seem to have an aussie in our ranks, nice. We have just about every GTM zone present here.

I just hope I'll get responses to my queries about that 7th player. Won't be a problem though, I'll just hope we can get him/her as soon as possible.

While chewing this dilemma. Try your mind in other one too. The map we're going to play. I thought about Huge Map of the World or random map sized 64x128. Some opinions might alter my viewpoint...I've been known to note democratic opinions by time to time

	05-08-2001 13:40									#26
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I vote for the map of the planet(whatever size), don't have a good reason though.

With either map I think the map should be visible ("no unit survey" set to off).
Obviously with a map of planet there is no point in hiding the map.
With a random map, even with the map blacked out, you can always tell where the land is by looking at the heights. Also it shows you the map in the support screen of the city window (a blacked out zoomed out version, but you can easily see the land masses).

	05-08-2001 13:55									#27
	Tired of ads?

Not sure I agree with being able to see the map. One of the things I enjoy the most is exploring the unknown. There are reasons to hide the map as we won't know the locations of the other factions - or are they hidden anyways? (I've not played with the map on.) Yes you can work out the land masses but not the details.

Another good map is DilithumDads ultimate builders map which I attach here.

Attachment: hmopdd2.zip
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	05-08-2001 16:24									#28
	Support Apolyton

With the map visible you can tell if a square is land or sea and whether there is a river there. So the only difference is the knowledge of river locations. You can't tell what the rainfall/rockiness is or anyhting like that.
Its just a convenience to have it visible, as you can use the mini-map instead of having to scan the continent manually.

	05-08-2001 18:05									#29
	Hi Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I would really like to play as Lal. Last time i tried to set up a game it REALLY was a mess and i ended not playing. :banned: . Well, I hope this time i can make it. If the person who has Deidre can give her up, I would really aprecciate it.

	05-08-2001 18:14									#30
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Wait...you want to play as Lal? He's available. This game won't be a mess up so your going to get stuck with us for some time. Hope you can handle that

Shall we book Lal for you?