04-08-2001 08:36									#1
	Civil disorder questions Put an end to popups!

1. CivII manual: "Prolonged civil disorder might bring down a government, and throw
your civilization into Anarchy."
Do you know when this occurs exactly? How many of turns needed? Does it depend on number of cities in the disorder?

2. CivII manual: "Cities in civil disorder produce no technological research"
Is this true?

	04-08-2001 09:18									#2
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quote: Originally posted by SlowThinker 1. CivII manual: "Prolonged civil disorder might bring down a government, and throw your civilization into Anarchy." Do you know when this occurs exactly? How many of turns needed? Does it depend on number of cities in the disorder?

If your government is a Democracy and one of your cities stays in civil disorder for 2 consecutive turns your government is overthrown.

quote: 2. CivII manual: "Cities in civil disorder produce no technological research" Is this true?

Cities in disorder produce nothing except food and luxuries. No shields, gold or science.

	04-08-2001 18:15									#3
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Did it only happen under Democracy? Anyway, science waste is 100% under disorder, alas.

	04-08-2001 20:21									#4
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D'accord, a player's democracy will collapse if disorder occurs on any two consecutive turns.

This includes during anarchy in the switch. That is, Thinktown is in disorder during anarchy. The next turn, democracy is restored, but order is not restored in Thinktown. The democracy will collapse because the game checks government and disorder turns, not disorder under the current government.

AI democracies are immune to this instability. I've tested by using spies to maintain disorder in an AI's city for 20 or more turns, never once inducing a revolt.

	04-08-2001 20:38									#5
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I agree with Thoth, and also with Marquis: Democracy, 2 turns in disorder, nothing useful produced in the meantime.

(La Fayette, almost convinced that SlowThinker is now about to publish the 650 pages 'Inquiry into the causes of the wealth of Sid et al.')

	04-08-2001 21:01									#6
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I tested the waste of the science under disorder again and I think there is no waste !!??

	04-08-2001 22:14									#7
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quote: Originally posted by SlowThinker I tested the waste of the science under disorder again and I think there is no waste !!??

In the example of my disorder testing, the city I kept in disorder did not accumulate any shields the entire time it was in disorder. I have no idea if trade arrows were nullified as well, as that did not concern me at the time. Does your test city produce no trade/science at all? Or at anarchy level?

Food accumulates, shields do not. Entertainers work to restore order. Gold (tax) does not accumulate until order is restored. How does science fit in?

	04-08-2001 22:30									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Marquis de Sodaq In the example of my disorder testing, the city I kept in disorder did not accumulate any shields the entire time it was in disorder.

But the unit support works! You can home there many units.
Then only loss is the gold.

quote: Originally posted by Marquis de Sodaq Does your test city produce no trade/science at all? Or at anarchy level?

No gold, full science. Under monarchy.

Edited:

quote: Originally posted by Marquis de Sodaq Or at anarchy level?

I tested it under republic now: full science, full increase on the spice square.

	05-08-2001 02:10									#9
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quote: Originally posted by SlowThinker But the unit support works! You can home there many units.

Shield support is maintained, but no shields accumulate towards new production. You may rush build improvements and wonders when a city is in disorder, but you may not rush a military unit.

If you change production, and there are enough shields accumulated from previous turns, you can complete a cheaper military unit.

	05-08-2001 02:33									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Thoth You may rush build improvements and wonders when a city is in disorder, but you may not rush a military unit. If you change production, and there are enough shields accumulated from previous turns, you can complete a cheaper military unit.

Is it a cheat? I will skip to Acceptable exploits or 'cheats'
so that there is some order here.

	07-08-2001 19:24									#11
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What I dislike about the civil-disorder-throwing-down-democracy-thing the most is the fact that it is also applied in newly conquered cities... if you don't spend enough concentration on quickly building temples and turning citizens to entertainers, a small city far away from your home country, newly taken by parachuters or so can throw your hole empire into anarchy

	16-08-2001 13:11									#12
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Once when I switched to democracy one of my cities went into civil disorder, but when I freed up workers to act as entertainers, then I wasn't getting enough food and the stores were low. I had a Settler supported, but not in a position to build a city or get resupported in time.

So I made the entertainer, but then next turn I came back to the city to get it back to work making food to restock the box, and then the turn after that I would switch back to an entertainer. I did this a couple times to get my Settler in place to build the city.

Since there were no two consecutive civil disorders it didn't overthrow the government, but I got to keep my settler (or population point, as the situation may be). Does anyone know if this is considered a cheat?

	16-08-2001 23:06									#13
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Laszlo,

I personally wouldn't consider that a cheat. That's working within the rules of the game. Anyways, in order to take those steps to keep your settler, you had to suffer multiple turns (even though they weren't consecutive) of a city's disorder and the non-collection of resources that comes with that. I'd say that's fair. Good thinking!

	22-08-2001 03:09									#14
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Laszlo, another thing I do often is re-home workers to a smaller food-rich city, along with re-homing warships and field units to Shakespeare city.

Faster to get those surplus specialists in the big cities.