04-08-2001 09:10									#1
	new civ3 feature INTEREST income...please confirm firaxis Suffering from ads?

on the screen shots from the new gamespot preview there is a city management screen and it has a very interesting category

interest income

see for yourself

http://gamespot.com/gamespot/storie...01449-3,00.html

any thoughts on this? firaxis could you please tell us a little more about this feature

	04-08-2001 09:19									#2
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It's possible there's some sort of bank or trust feature that's been added. Or maybe you can loan money to other civs and force them to pay interest on it.

	04-08-2001 10:47									#3
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You can!

	04-08-2001 14:10									#4
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quote: aybe you can loan money to other civs and force them to pay interest on it.

Why else would you loan money? Besides maybe to an ally. That's the way it worked in SMAC so I'd imagine it would be the same way in Civ3. I don't think this is what it means though for the interest income because there already is 'Interest from other civs'. It could be your first option you mentioned, though (the bank thing).

This is irrelevant to the topic but does anybody else remember hearing that the tax scroll bar will be in a different place than the luxuries and science scroll bar? In Civ2 you could change the percents on luxuries, science, and tax at the same screen. I don't think it's going to be this way in Civ3, though. What would be accomplished in having the tax bar in a different place? The only thing that I can think of is that luxuries and science are now apart of your budget. Example: Meaning that if you have your tax at 40% you'll be earning 40 gold each turn. You then can set your luxuries at 20% and your science at 40% taking away lets say 30 gold (5 gold for each 10%) each turn. That would actually only be giving you a 10 gold income each turn. If this is the way it works in Civ3, I would like to say awesome! Care to comment on this Firaxis? Please do.

	04-08-2001 14:53									#5
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quote: Originally posted by TechWins Example: Meaning that if you have your tax at 40% you'll be earning 40 gold each turn. You then can set your luxuries at 20% and your science at 40% taking away lets say 30 gold (5 gold for each 10%) each turn. That would actually only be giving you a 10 gold income each turn. If this is the way it works in Civ3, I would like to say awesome! Care to comment on this Firaxis? Please do.

Well, according to the expenses in the domestic advisor-screen, both science-allocation, combat-units and city-improvements needs financial gold-support in Civ-3.

Some civers have even speculated if roads/RR:s should have a support-cost also (perhaps unlikely). Maybe the cost for both city-improvements and road/RR network is represented under the generic "Maintenance" post. I dont know. The cost for science-allocation seems pretty high comparing with the other expenses-posts though.

	04-08-2001 15:06									#6
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quote: Well, according to the expenses in the domestic advisor-screen, both science-allocation, combat-units and city-improvements needs financial gold-support in Civ-3.

Well, that takes away my theory somewhat because luxuries don't cost anything. Do you remember hearing that about the scroll bars, though?

Having roads/railroads maintenance would add some realism. I"m afraid that it might unbalance the whole money system. It already seems hard enough (frome what we know) to account for all your expendetures and still make an income. If it wouldn't unbalance the money system too much than it would be great to have. Just one more challenge.

The science-allocation does seem rather high.

	04-08-2001 15:32									#7
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quote: Originally posted by TechWins Well, that takes away my theory somewhat because luxuries don't cost anything. Do you remember hearing that about the scroll bars, though?

Im not sure about luxuries, but check out the domestic advisor-screen once again. There are several details that I didnt notice of before.

In Civ-2 (if I remember correctly) the corruption only affected your gold-income. In Civ-3 the corruption seems to affect both gold, shields and foods. At least I interprete the red shield & dollar-icon and the half food-icon as corruption. What could they represent otherwise? If true - this means that building courthouses and maintain law & order becomes much more important in Civ-3.

I presume that the dry martini glass represents luxury-production.

By the way: why is "Income from other civs" and "interest income" presented as separate posts? Can you get interest income from other sources then "from other civs"?

	04-08-2001 16:04									#8
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"Income from other civs" could be tributes, fees etc., while "Interest" is solely from loans?

	04-08-2001 16:07									#9
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quote: In Civ-3 the corruption seems to affect both gold, shields and foods

Wow, you're right. Could the red production be from waste? The red food be from unhappiness? Then the red money from corruption? I think that might be the way it works.

quote: Can you get interest income from other sources then "from other civs"?

The only idea so far is 'It's possible there's some sort of bank or trust feature that's been added'. Other than that I have no clue, either.

	04-08-2001 16:15									#10
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quote: "Income from other civs" could be tributes, fees etc., while "Interest" is solely from loans?

Well, I think you cracked the case. This really makes a lot of sense. I'm not sure why nobody else thought of this.

	04-08-2001 17:40									#11
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i am not sure if it is income from other civs through loans, it very well might be, but it seems like loan income would be a more appropriate term...also in SMAC it told how much the loan was and how much longer you had to pay it off neither of which are in that screenshot so although it is quite possibly that i'd like firaxis to confirm it

	05-08-2001 00:41									#12
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quote: Originally posted by TechWins Wow, you're right. Could the red production be from waste? The red food be from unhappiness? Then the red money from corruption? I think that might be the way it works.

More than likely it is what is being used. If you look closely at the pic you realize that there is a higher number in the red in each of those cities than the black. Then if you look closer, the amount of pop heads there are x 2 equals the number in red. This almost guarantees that red numbers are not wasted but instead what is being used in each city.

The black is what you have left over for growth and for building things.

	05-08-2001 00:44									#13
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quote: Originally posted by korn469 i am not sure if it is income from other civs through loans, it very well might be, but it seems like loan income would be a more appropriate term...also in SMAC it told how much the loan was and how much longer you had to pay it off neither of which are in that screenshot so although it is quite possibly that i'd like firaxis to confirm it

The only thing would be is that this is the domestic advisor so she is not concerned with foreign loans. She is just telling you what is in the treasury and where it is coming from. A certain amount is interest from loans. Then your foreign or trade advisor would fill you in with the rest of the information including all the things you want. If this is the case, I would hope that there would be a link to that other advisor by clicking on Interest Income.

	05-08-2001 02:05									#14
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actually in civ2 corruption effected trade and production

it might have affected fosd too but it has been a while


Jon Miller

	05-08-2001 03:38									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller actually in civ2 corruption effected trade and production it might have affected fosd too but it has been a while

I have reinstalled Civ-2 and check out the civilopedia about "Corruption and waste". Here is what it says:

quote: As your civilization grows, you might notice that some of your cities are losing some of their Trade and Shields to corruption and waste. Corruption is Trade income that is lost to theft, embezzlement, and other illegal practices. Waste is Shield production that is lost to inefficiency. The farther a city is from your capital, the more corruption and waste it experiences. The amount of corruption and waste is also affected by the system of government you are using. Corruption and waste, if left unchecked, can significantly slow the development of your civilization. Both corruption and waste can be reduced by 50 percent by building a Courthouse in the city experiencing the problem. The best solution, however, is to switch your system of government to a more advanced form. The more advanced the government, the less corruption and waste you experience. Communism and Democracy alleviate this problem altogether.

Hmm! Seems that you are right. Nothing about spoilt foods, though.

	06-08-2001 03:24									#16
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should be some kind of food waste too.. many times in history soldiers and aristocrats/leaders have taken a cities food to live in a higher state of health, although if you take food values as representing growth.. like birth rate this wouldn't be affected by corruption.

What about if they have a National debt feature too, if it gets too much in comparison to your civs size.. you have to sell something , or the world bank stops you quick buying and using any extra money (can't build more units as they take money)

	07-08-2001 03:09									#17
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Now with all this talk about loans and such, what about the idea of war bonds or some kind of defecit spending during times of war? This way units can be rush-built and supported beyond your treasury, yet, you could seriously hurt long-term growth if you can't make up that defecit soon after the war?

	07-08-2001 03:37									#18
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Cool I Idea Serapis!! We can only hope they have already included that into Civ, as it is probably to late to implement it if they have not.

	07-08-2001 04:14									#19
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The way I figured the idea, it would work a bit like the public-bonds in SimCity2000 (never played 3000). It'd be more of a last-ditch money fix as, if you can't pay it back soon, city-improvements start getting sold to pay off the debt, unhappiness increases, or cities even revolt.