04-08-2001 22:18									#1
	Catherine the Great? Who is the mystery woman? Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Is this animated leader Catherine the Great of Russia? Maria Theresa of Germany? Someone else? Please tell us what you think.

Attachment: who.gif
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	04-08-2001 22:21									#2
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Where is the screen shot from?

	04-08-2001 22:52									#3
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tniem,
From this very, very old screenshot which re-emerged in the 'Civs included' thread. We seem to have overlooked her for a long time. From looking at the current civ list, it can realistically only be a Russian or German leader, hence the choices above (even though Maria Theresa was actually Austrian).

Alexander,
I appreciate your efforts but you should know that democratic decisions don't count as evidence in the 'civs included' thread

	04-08-2001 23:10									#4
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There will be only one leader per civ, right? (no male/female option). If so, I doubt this is Maria Theresa. I think it's more likely that the Germans will have a male leader, Frederick or Bismarck, perhaps.

	04-08-2001 23:45									#5
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The image comes from the June 2001 PC Gamer article.

	05-08-2001 13:44									#6
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That doesn't look like a very good render.

	05-08-2001 14:19									#7
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She is not Ekaterina Vtoraya . Compare with her portrait on the following link

http://russianculture.ru/zoomimg.as...-83-1&Lage=True

	05-08-2001 23:48									#8
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I don't know...you can't see her head very well in that portrait.

As for the render, it appears to be a compressed scanned version of a small part of a magazine article. Quality was lost for sure.

	06-08-2001 04:05									#9
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I recently had the picture looked at by someone with more experience than I, and I'm sorry to say it looks like she can't be either of the two original options.

She most closely resembles...

Queen Victoria of Great Britain.

Both Catherine the Great and Maria Theresa were 18th Century monarchs, and this woman is clad in late 19th Century Garb.

However, the repercussions of this new data are immense. This would mean that there are not only two leaders in a civilization, but two FEMALE leaders.

I would suggest another leader, but the queens and empresses of the 19th Century were either living in the shadows of their husbands, the Kaisers and Tsars (and were thereby not great enough to warrant leadership in CivIII) or died young (ie. Tsarina Alexandra, wife of Nicholas II).

This is indeed a predicament. What do you think?

	06-08-2001 04:20									#10
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Alexander, you mention "Two FEMALE leaders". Do you mean that there is proof of Queen Elizabeth I?
And, what if the Firaxians have got the pic wrong, and are currently fixing it? Maybe they have accidentally put Victoria's pic instead of MTheresias or Catherine's?
*Going to find a pic of Victoria*

	06-08-2001 04:30									#11
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Well the other image is almost assuredly Elizabeth I, from the frizzy red hair, to the clothing style to the several pounds of makeup.

As for Victoria, I have considered a mistake on Firaxis part, but considering the amount of time it takes to animate one of these leaders, I think they would have figured it out. Also, I'm sure they consult multiple pictures before animating.

I have since studied several portraits of Victoria. She does where that odd scarf/napkin thing behind her head, in addition to the black dress with the frilly collar and the strange necklace thing.

But, we'll have to wait for an explanation. Here's a prime dilemma for Firaxis to resolve for us.

	06-08-2001 05:08									#12
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maybe its Mary Queen of Scots, elizabeth I's rival sister.. Mary could be the queen of the celts(scots) though I don't think she ruled the scots for long, but this lady does look plump and ugly like mary did i believe.
I hope they bring back the national anthems for diplomacy screens like civ1

	06-08-2001 08:24									#13
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Yes, if they could play legitimate National anthems. Or perhaps the national anthem first and then if diplomatic negotiations are still going on proceed to another anthem.
For example, you're talking with the English. After it's played "God save the King (Queen)" it moves on to "Rule Britannia" and "There'll always be an England" and others.

Or if you are negotiating with Germany, after "Seize the Victory Wreath (sung to the same tune as God Save the King and My Country 'Tis of Thee)" and "Deutschland Ueber Alles" it goes on to "Prussia's Glory" and other German marches.

Another idea - music reflects government and time period, like Russia - under despotism it could have the grand imperial Tsarist anthems, then on to communism, with the bombastic and pompous music of that regime, then on to democracy with the current anthem. It would take up a lot of disk space, but it would be way cool. Just don't sacrifice other things for it.

In the meantime, why not start a CivIII music options thread?

	06-08-2001 09:57									#14
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What we need to do here is narrow it down to "Great Leaders" that happened to be female, European, royal and rather plump in their old age. In my book that narrows it down to Queen Victoria and Tsarina Catherine the Great of Russia.

My vote would be Catherine the Great, given that England/Britain already has Queen Bess. We haven't seen a great leader for Russia in the CIII screenshots yet, and she'd be a good pick.

Mind you, I've always thought that Peter the Great should get in for Russia, not that Georgian dictator Iosif Dzugashvilli, otherwise known as Stalin.

	06-08-2001 10:54									#15
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The trouble is that she doesn't look anything like Catherine, excepting that she is old and fat, not to mention the complete lack of a frou-frou powdered wig!

But yes, I do believe it is the consensus of the majority that Peter the Great should be our Russian leader. Ultimately though, that is up to Firaxis, and sometimes they do funny things (Shakala, really!)

	06-08-2001 11:32									#16
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I would say 70% Catherine II. The nose and chin seem right. The attatchement is a potrait of her entitled catherine II walking in Tsarskoe-Selo done by Vladimir Lukich Borovikovskii in 1794.
Question: Is there any proof there will only be one leader per civ? Personally, I would like to see the choice of 2 as in civ2.

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	06-08-2001 13:53									#17
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Most definately Queen Victoria.

	06-08-2001 16:46									#18
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Maybe that picture is just a hoax to get our minds twisted?
*shivers*
Maybe the Firaxians are online, lauging on the floor with us and our paranoid speculations!
And, it can't be Victoria, if Lizzie I is already there. It's most probably Catherine the Great, which is bad if there's only one animated leader / Civ.

	06-08-2001 16:52									#19
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cmon people, it's madelein albright

	06-08-2001 17:44									#20
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J. Edgar Hoover?

	06-08-2001 20:49									#21
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That's got to be Victoria.

	06-08-2001 22:08									#22
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That's what I say, too! The picture is almost certainly of Queen Victoria. And while Firaxiks may have made a mistake, it takes so much time to animate that you'd think sometime while producing it they'd realize - "That's not right!" Plus, they must consult hundreds of portraits to make these animations. It'd be hard to get one wrong.

	06-08-2001 22:48									#23
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I don't see how Firaxis could get a picture WRONG. It'd be such a huge, obvious error......

Firaxis will give us some information when the site goes up. Other than that, I prefer to find out the details for myself when I get the game.

	06-08-2001 23:01									#24
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I think that sounds reasonable, Sabre2th.

So we've narrowed down the hypothetical list to

1. Queen Victoria
2. Catherine the Great
3. Maria Theresa
4. Pretty much every other woman under the sun.

We'll just have to wait and see what good ol' Firaxis has for us.

In the meantime, if anyone DOES find out some more concrete evidence, please let us know.