05-08-2001 12:28									#1
	Is an "imperial focus system" ala MOO-3 a good idea? Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Click on THIS LINK and read all about it. Heres two quotes:

quote: We're after the '5th X' in this genre," said Emrich. "All of these games do expand, explore, exploit, and exterminate. We're trying to add in eXperience. The new imperial focus point system (allowing a player to do anything but not everything in a single game turn),....

quote: The imperial focus point system will be a mechanism by which you will be limited to performing the tasks each turn that you feel are the most important. Rather than being able to go to every planet and tweak its mineral output or government type, Master of Orion III will make advance planning far more important. "A civilization is not a sports car you can turn on a dime," said Emrich. "It's a submarine that takes a lot of planning to plot a course. A player will have to keep his eyes on the prize and plan ahead.

I realise that its far two late to implement something like above in Civ-3, and I dont think Firaxis done anything similar. Regardless of that, Im not sure if I like it anyway. It sounds reasonable in theory, but Im not sure if it works out that well in practice. Anyway; I think it shall be interesting to see how game-reviewers, MOO-3 discussion-forums and ultimately, the customers welcome this "fifth X-feature". Whats your opinion? Have something like this a future in the Civ-genre also?

	05-08-2001 23:53									#2
	Not in CIv games as we know them. Got spare money?

While I like the idea that Moo3 has, at this point, IFPs don't seem plausable nor necessary for Civ3.

One of the ideas behind IFPs in Moo3 is that you could potentially have 1000's of colonies to manage, socially, economically, militarilly EtC. The word "focus" in Imperial Focus Points is meant to be just that, a way to focus your attention on the most immediate needs of your empire.

The Civ series would need a complete overhaul in order to utilize a feature like this, IMHO. The games to not go as deep into the issues of running an empire as the way Moo3 looks to be (I am not saying that is a bad thing or a good thing).

	06-08-2001 03:27									#3
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I suspect that the reception of this new concept in MOO3 will have everything to do with how much control the user still feels that they have over their colonies (priorities, exception responses, et cetera). After all, these types of games weren't nicknamed 'god games' because the people playing them preferred to have other, anonymous, unresponsive, 'computer-types' making their decisions for them.

I believe that many of us (confession time) are seriously deranged micromanagers in one or more aspects of our playing style--and we won't want that compromised unless the alternative brings something better to the table.

I hope that Quicksilver is right, and that their implementation of governors is sufficiently rich to add to the gameplay experience. And it will be equally interesting to see if Firaxis has done something along those lines in Civ3, as well.

	06-08-2001 03:37									#4
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moo3's management point system thing your talking about is Excellent ,
I am thinking of using something similar in my game, based on political power (politicians and radio communications etc help increase it) maybe moo3 stole my idea lol
my games Mantra.. and the government type and leader abilities affect how many Political Points are available each game month..
I hope you can turn it off in moo3 though - new crap players might find it too difficult.

Admiral Peter (maker of the game Mantra @ peter@artpac.demon.co.uk address)

	06-08-2001 11:36									#5
	Put an end to popups!

This "imperial focus system" is nothing new. It has been in Koei's Romance of the Three Kingdoms for several years.

The way Quicksilver will have it in MoO 3 is a load of crap based on crappola assumptions.

First of all, I don't think a lot of us are deranged micromanagers. We micromanage simply because the computer is utterly incapable of doing so. Of course, this is not a problem for the computer players because they cheat.

Secondly, micromanaging planetary settings is not "turning the empire on a dime". We're just doing what those foobared "governors" are supposed to do, but can't.

Thirdly, calling this "eXperience" is simply bovine excrement, as if previous games weren't enjoyable (?) experiences.

I can go on, but I'll stop for now.

	06-08-2001 16:09									#6
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Seems like, everyone wants just the same old game improved. I mean, what's the good in having 20 similar civilizations with only more units and improving graphics? Who would buy the 20th civilization? Who would buy the 10th? Heck, who would buy the 5th? Not me at least.

This kind of new ideas and radical gameplay changes for old game serieses are great, becaue then I don't have to buy a game with only small improvements over the previous one, but completely new games.

If someone wants to create 20 similar civs with only improvements, he should disrupt the upgrades freely, not to sell them in stores and if he would, they'd need to be only 1/4 of a complete games price.

It seems, that not many either agree with me or they haven't thought of this... Yes, Civ II and MoO II are good as they are (I don't want Civ III to be Civ II with new units, wonders, graphics and buildings... Those are irrelevant. That's what mods are for. We need tools to be able to do those parts ourselves), but I wouldn't want to have only little improved versions of them, but entirely renewed games with old good features + dozens of new good features and changes in the gameplay.

	06-08-2001 18:55									#7
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I'm reserving judgment on IFP's until MOO3 comes out, but Quicksilver gets kudos in my book for trying something new with their game series (instead of making MOO2.5). If the system works then I'll buy it in lieu of Civ III, if it doesn't work then I won't buy it.

	06-08-2001 21:00									#8
	Increase the size of your Attachments

first of all, i dont think i will be buying either civ3 or moo3 in place of the other (i will be buying both) because im interested in both, they're different games, and moo3 is much farther away.

Second of all, i believe that because civ3 and moo3 will be different games, and have different scales and focuses, the imperial focus points system will work in moo3 but would not work in civ3 the way it is. I could imagine a civ game (or even a mod on civ3, the way it looks now) with the ifps, but it would have to be on a larger (and more sovereign, if you know what i mean, ala the moo series) scale.

just my $0.02

	06-08-2001 22:41									#9
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Hey, MarkG

Looks like you need too set up a MOO-3 forum

	06-08-2001 22:53									#10
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Quartz Dragon Hey, MarkG Looks like you need too set up a MOO-3 forum

I was going to suggest this on the Apolyton forum, but not until MOO3 actually came out (or until its release was imminent). I am, however, going to ask about setting up a link to Quicksilver from Apolyton.

	07-08-2001 03:35									#11
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An other games MOO3 Section would be fine, however the Quiksilver forums are pretty good. Especially since the designers make appearances on them every so often, so an Apolyton forum might go to waste like the EU section did

	07-08-2001 05:45									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

but we don't want to go to some foreign dingy forum with mad natives, we shold have our own Moo3 forum right here!

	07-08-2001 18:18									#13
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On the Apolyton forum (under the thread "MOO3 Section") MarkG says that if there is enough support for the idea then he and DanQ might consider the addition of a MOO3 section on Apolyton.