06-08-2001 04:38									#1
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Who should it be? Tell us!

	06-08-2001 04:47									#2
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Peter the Great.
Russians named a city after him, and he was a big shot when considering war times, so I'll go for him. Maybe Lenin would qualify too, but he was the boss of the USSR, not Russia.

	06-08-2001 05:08									#3
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Perhaps its not "politicly correct" or perhaps he is not the most deserving one but in the spirit of Civ 1 I voted for Stalin.

	06-08-2001 05:21									#4
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Lenin... despite the fact that Stalin led longer

Catherine the Great would be good for a leader, but I had to choose Lenin, because he was the epitome of the Communist leader of the USSR!

Catherine saved the Jesuit order from destruction, and won a fair amount of wars- but there are too few recent rulers for Civ III.

	06-08-2001 05:53									#5
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Peter the Great. He kind of laid the foundation for modern Russia, and built St Petersburg.
Stalin has too much blood on his hands IMO.

	06-08-2001 10:50									#6
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I foolishly put down Peter the Great in another thread, but the more I think about it, the more I think it has to be Ivan IV, "the Terrible". He basically unified the kingdom of Russia around his principality of Moscow and beat off the tartars, enabling Russia to move South and East to the Urals. Bit of a loony-tunes in his later years (he murdered his own son, and did nasty things to his enemies), but a definite contender. All the other rulers of Russsia after him built upon the empire he created.

My second choice would be Peter the Great, who modernised Russia and defeated the Swedes at Poltava.

Side note: "Ivan the Terrible" is our translation of Ivan Grozny (remember that city in Chechnya?), which means "Ivan the Awe-Inspiring", or "...Terrifying".

	06-08-2001 11:39									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Gangerolf Peter the Great. He kind of laid the foundation for modern Russia, and built St Petersburg. Stalin has too much blood on his hands IMO.

I'm for Peter, too, but his hands were also quite bloody, though not nearly as bad as Stalin's.

	06-08-2001 12:43									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Miatezhnyi I'm for Peter, too, but his hands were also quite bloody, though not nearly as bad as Stalin's.

Is there any leader in the game whose hands are not bloody?

	06-08-2001 13:34									#9
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quote: Originally posted by LaRusso Is there any leader in the game whose hands are not bloody?

I know mine ALWAYS are! Out, damned spot!

	06-08-2001 13:39									#10
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I chose Ivan the Terrible but you forgot to put Alexander Nevsky.

	06-08-2001 13:41									#11
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Well the front page of the paper this morning described in gory detail how the Vikings founded the Russian state.

So I cast my vote for Erik the Red...

	06-08-2001 13:47									#12
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Not Lenin or Stalin. The Russians deserve more appreciation than that. After all, we don't expect Hitler, Hirohito, Franco or George W. Bush to make an appearance either.

	06-08-2001 13:48									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Kenobi I know mine ALWAYS are! Out, damned spot!

Hehe, well I just remembered that Gandhi was kinda cool....
Peter had a knack for hanging dissenters. True European monarch I voted for Uncle Joe, Civ1 fond memories plus I'd rather see his smirk when negotiating with Russians

	06-08-2001 13:51									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Hasdrubal Not Lenin or Stalin. The Russians deserve more appreciation than that. After all, we don't expect Hitler, Hirohito, Franco or George W. Bush to make an appearance either.

Well, Franco is better than Asnar or Felipe Gonsales or any other bureucrat . I mean, you should HATE foreign leaders, while you can always change your leader's name.
This said, Thatcher should be English leader

	06-08-2001 19:05									#15
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quote: Originally posted by fittstim Well the front page of the paper this morning described in gory detail how the Vikings founded the Russian state. So I cast my vote for Erik the Red...

The Russian state was founded at 860 AC by one of Viking tribes - Varyags . The name of first Russian leader was Rurick . Also first Russian city in the list should be Veliky Novgorod not Moscow.

Regarding the Russian leader in the CivIII, Peter the Great would be the best choice. He converted obsolete country to modern European power.

	06-08-2001 19:11									#16
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I didn't forget Alexander Nevsky; I considered including him, but only a maximum of 10 choices is allowed.

And yes, Rurik was chieftain of the Rus, the Viking tribe that conquered the Slavs and formed Russia.

	06-08-2001 20:46									#17
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Ivan the Terrible. I don't think that anybody managed to expand the empire more than he did. So what if he was a bit sociopathic.

	06-08-2001 21:14									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander01 I didn't forget Alexander Nevsky; I considered including him, but only a maximum of 10 choices is allowed.

Alexander Nevsky was not a ruler. At that time, Novgorod was a kind of ansient democracy. They invited a king just for war time.

So, Alexander defeated Sweden army in 1240, German army in 1242 and - together with General Winter - explained to mongols that they have nothing to do in northern part of Russia. But when the wars were finished he was usually expelled from the city.

He was very good and lucky mercenary, not king.

	07-08-2001 03:18									#19
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It has to Boris to add life to the AI:

abrupt changes of government policy - lets sack some ministers today

populist gestures - we love/hate the president (frequently)

diplomatic illnesses - who can predict his diplomatic stance (or dance)

and ... Kalinka on the sound track

	07-08-2001 03:20									#20
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Off-Topic but On-Topic. As an addendum to the 10% incoherency of Boris Yeltsin, here's a past WWWF Grudge Match, Boris Yeltsin versus Ted Kennedy in a shot-4-shot drinking match.

WWWF Grudge Match - Yeltsin vs. Kennedy

	07-08-2001 03:30									#21
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Oh yeah, not about leaders, but the great Russian generals better be part of Civ3, not just European and American generals as great military leaders. Guys like Aleksandr Suvorov and Georgy Zhukov have done enough to warrant a Civ3 appearance.

	07-08-2001 16:08									#22
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Since Firaxis is going for at least a nominal inclusion of female leaders in Civ3, it'd be a shame if they didn't include the most illustrious female monarch of them all, Catherine the Great. I mean, Joan of Arc didn't do much at all compared to Catherine...

	07-08-2001 16:27									#23
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i must admit russians have many interesting leaders, far more than some other civs. of course interesting can be read as controversial.....
catherine, the humping machine....why not

	07-08-2001 17:15									#24
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She didn't hump much more than most Male monarchs at the time. Except they didn't award their former mistresses huge estates. Or had one of them murder their spouse.

However, she's definately more well known for her diplomatic prowess. Perhaps the best personification of Machiavelli's renaissance prince.

	07-08-2001 19:55									#25
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Peter I

He was oen of the most important characters in Russian history, especially when it comes to leading Russia out of backwardness.

Stalin also did efficient work cocnerning industrialisation, but his means were.... extreme. After he died, many peole in the socialist world went on distance to him and his ideals. Peter I stays the man.

BTW, those who say that both Lenin and Stalin are actually Soviet leaders should remember the words abstraction and play balance... we don't really need 2 civs for the fellas, and the country's role in the world hasn't really changed during the time

(the soviet union actually consisted of more countries than only Russia, yet all of them were part of the Russian Empire before the revolution, so it doesn't really make a big difference )