06-08-2001 06:20									#1
	Civ 3 Expansions? Enter the AD-FREE zone

Now that CIV3 appears to be nearing release, it appears unlikely that radical new gameplay suggestions will be adopted. I feel we should start thinking about possible expansions that can be released later. These expansions could be retail expansions, or free downloads from a Firaxis-approved site. I feel that it's unlikely Firaxis will not consider expansions, considering how successful this game is likely to be.

What would you like to see in a CIV3 expansion?

Personally, I would like to see:

New civilisations

Each civilisation would require leader animations for a male and female leader, a list of cities, unique units and possible unique technologies.

Extended tech tree

The tech tree could be extended with futuristic techs so technology advances don't stop in the Modern era. One thing I liked about CTP and CTP2 was the longer tech tree. While the tech tree had flaws where a lot of units in it were obsolete before they could be built in large numbers, it was a lot of fun blowing away tanks with fusion tanks and generally wreaking havoc with the advanced units.

The tech tree can be extended at the other end as well. Imagine having to discover Irrigation, Mining and Roads, or having to research the Warrior unit and the Settler unit. Barracks are a pretty advanced concept as well.

New units

Adding new units to the game of various kinds.

Software tools

I think the best tools here would be one that allows someone to create their own civilizations, units, techs and scenarios.

	06-08-2001 06:37									#2
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Gezz apears to be nearing release, that sounds like next week to me, why is it that October seems like 2 years from now. With our luck it will be pushed back till next summer and might as well be a decade from now.

Hmmm i guess im giving the impression that i cant wait.

	06-08-2001 07:40									#3
	Re: expansion Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

There's a recent thread begging Firaxis to do the exact opposite - that is, of course, to abstain from additional civ3 products. An expansion to me signals a weak game. The Sims needs expansions to stay interesting. Alpha Centauri's expansion, which featured a lot of what your list contains, wasn't top of the line.

And I don't want to spend $29 on what should've been there already

	06-08-2001 08:25									#4
	Re: Civ 3 Expansions? Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by star mouse What would you like to see in a CIV3 expansion? Personally, I would like to see: New civilisations Each civilisation would require leader animations for a male and female leader, a list of cities, unique units and possible unique technologies. Extended tech tree The tech tree could be extended with futuristic techs so technology advances don't stop in the Modern era. One thing I liked about CTP and CTP2 was the longer tech tree. While the tech tree had flaws where a lot of units in it were obsolete before they could be built in large numbers, it was a lot of fun blowing away tanks with fusion tanks and generally wreaking havoc with the advanced units. The tech tree can be extended at the other end as well. Imagine having to discover Irrigation, Mining and Roads, or having to research the Warrior unit and the Settler unit. Barracks are a pretty advanced concept as well. New units Adding new units to the game of various kinds. Software tools I think the best tools here would be one that allows someone to create their own civilizations, units, techs and scenarios.

I would love all of the above.

	06-08-2001 09:35									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Hasn't Firaxis basically confirmed that they are going to allow all of what was said above to be done by mods with the shipped game?

	06-08-2001 11:17									#6
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by tniem Hasn't Firaxis basically confirmed that they are going to allow all of what was said above to be done by mods with the shipped game?

If this is the case, then it won't be long before we can wreak havoc with our own mods based on the civ3 engine. About the only things that would be difficult to replicate will be the animated troops and leaders. CIV3 will support units that are flat CIV2-style images, but I don't know about leaders.

	07-08-2001 03:01									#7
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I figure the most likely addition of an expansion pack would be more civilizations with more animated leaders and unique units.
Other then that, probably a lot of extra scenarios.

	07-08-2001 10:29									#8
	Remove this text

quote: There's a recent thread begging Firaxis to do the exact opposite - that is, of course, to abstain from additional civ3 products. An expansion to me signals a weak game. The Sims needs expansions to stay interesting. Alpha Centauri's expansion, which featured a lot of what your list contains, wasn't top of the line.

Amen! I'm glad someone agree's with me! (that thread was one i started, btw. )

	07-08-2001 11:16									#9
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

On the balance of things, I feel a game released without an expansion and good editors for scenarios, units, races and leaders would be a better proposition than releasing a retail expansion. Firaxis and the fans of the game can devise various goodies for downloading, thus making the game richer than the mere release of an expansion can do. Also, we don't have to spend as much money

	07-08-2001 11:52									#10
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

The only civ 2 expansion that added to the game IMHO was the MPGE... but even this is now done in a free patch... Hopefully civ 3 wil lget it right the first time, i wil lbe another one that refuses to buy addons !!!!

	07-08-2001 12:28									#11
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

connorkimbro and SMACed

i think both of you are completely wrong and that well done expansions are worth their money...to me expansions give the developers a second chance to do some minor polishing and at the same time gives the developer the time to go back and make meaningful changes to the game...also it increases the games life and gives it a second wind

for one thing developers don't have to create a new game engine, or many of the other preliminary steps that takes so long in the development process...you are building on an already firm foundation, and all you do is add content and artwork...the best expansion ever was broodwar because with the changes it made it completely changed the face of starcraft strategies...it added more depth and more strategies to the game

any worthwhile expansion for civ3 will hopefully add more depth, more strategies, and more tools (scenario tools, techs, buildings, civs, scenarios etc.) to make the game better, any expansion that just add more scenarios and more civilizations won't be worth the money...i actually hope that firaxis will have a civ3 expansion and that it will be a fairly ambitious expansion

quote: An expansion to me signals a weak game. The Sims needs expansions to stay interesting.

for the most part only the better games get expansions...any game voted worst game in history that sells maybe a hundred copies will not get an expansion...any game voted best game in history that sells ten million copies will get an expansion...also to say that the sims was a weak game is a rather hard to back up claim...

for one thing the sims is innovative, it is as innovative as the original civ, and vastly more innovative than the conservative sequal civ3, or any blizzard/westwood/ensemble RTS game, and i don't even need to add in any of the Madden games, or NBA live, or FPS...the sims is basically a virtual doll house, and that hasn't been done before...the game is so flexable that it can withstand all of the upgrades that it has gotten, and while EA is certainly milking the money train here the basic design of the sims is very solid and has allowed maxis to build upon it...i think that house party is much more worthwhile expansion that livin large, because it adds many new options to the game...also maxis has made some content available for players to download and it has made it easy for players to get together and exchange content

i think the sheer newness of the sims plus the constant updating of the game has been what has made it the most successful game of the past year, the sims has dwarfed diablo2 which was huge itself...nothing has came close to touching the sims, and that is because the sims is a mainstream game...pretty much anybody can play it, and as they add more and more expansions the sims has more and more things in the game that keep the player occupied

i really doubt that civ3 will be as big as the sims...but even so that won't make civ3 a weak game...and neither will giving it a worthwhile expansion...if civ3 is really in Q/A then it is feature complete and i'm sure that there are lots of good ideas contained in the list that didn't get added to civ3...civ3 could be the best game ever but things can always be improved upon...if expansions had of been as big in the 80's as what they are now you would most likely have seen fewer king's quests and ultima games but more expansions

i feel way more cheated when a company basically releases a stand alone expansion and calls it a sequal...homeworld:catacylsm didn't pretend to be a sequal they didn't call it homeworld2 it was just an expansion...i'm afraid that EU2 will be more of a stand alone expansion that a true sequal

expansions are good because they allow a developer to quickly (compared to making a true sequal) add new features and content to an already existing game...maybe they could have did better with the original version but they have a budget and a schedule that they have to follow and most of the time they have to cut features to ship a game on time...i don't think any developer has purposely held back highly intergrated parts of their game to be in an expansion just to sell copies...and even if maybe a few have i really don't think that firaxis would do that...without expansions we would have to wait for a sequal which might or might not come out

edit

quote: Firaxis and the fans of the game can devise various goodies for downloading, thus making the game richer than the mere release of an expansion can do. Also, we don't have to spend as much money

again untrue...there are somethings that are beyond any mod maker's ability, like adding culture and special resources and improved diplomacy and trade to civ2...those things can't be done by a mod maker and they also require alot of time, effort, manpower, artwork, q/a, etc. if there is no real economic incentive then why should firaxis continously add new content? if it is worthwhile enough then people will pay for it...if not then the expansion will be a failure...if after firaxis releases civ3 if they add in a new really cool feature in the expansion that no mod maker would be able to duplicate and that feature improves the game then i will buy the expansion...if not then i will pass on it...if the scenario tools and civ creation tools (you can make your own civ, with its own unique unit etc) are as good as they say, then any mere scenario expansion pack for civ3 will fail...because the players will be able to create content that is just as compelling (if not moreso)