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Ecthy
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Zhonghuà Rénmín Gònghéguó
Mar 2000
time: 06:15
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I only played 2 role-playing games on computers.... Zelda on the GameBoy and Lands OF Lore on the PC. I loved both, never got into any else.
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Ari Rahikkala
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Unreported loss of streaming in atomic read operation
Oct 1999
time: 07:15
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I haven't played much of CRPG's, and no other RPG's but...
It's a tie.
On one side is UnReal World, an old, long and huge two men's project to create a believable iron age Finland environment. As it has been developed for so long, the UI is fast to use though not very easy to learn. Gameplay is tweaked a lot, and while it is a bit on the easy side, it is still much of fun. The game does not have any premade story, it is only about living. And that is what makes it unique.
http://www.jmp.fi/~smaarane/urw.html
On the other side is Planet's Edge, an even older and huger company project to create a sci-fi world that is really fun to play and not too easy. (although I think it is impossible to actually lose this game). It has a premade story, and is actually not very far from the everyday RPG. However, it is just.. so good  . Besides, I have the Alpha Centauri III's music still playing in my head .
http://www.theunderdogs.org/game.php?Planet%27s+Edge
Last edited by Ari Rahikkala on 09-08-2001 at 03:25
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Moral Hazard
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of jack
Jul 1999
time: 01:15
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Fallout 2, Fallout, or Planescape.
I'm not really big into hack and slash, hence all the games I've cited center around interaction. I'm having a hard time getting into Baldur's Gate 2, mainly because you have to do a bit of fighting to start.
My favorite combat system is the one from fallout. Hell they made a tactical combat based on it so it's got to be good. Ultima's blew but that's never been where my emphasis was.
Skill based is definitely superior to classes, especially since most roleplaying games now center around one character instead of a party. Which is superior because it allows writers to build up your party member's personalities.
Honorable Mention:
Ultima 6, 7, and 7.5. (You pretty much had to be good, and 7.5's ending seemed rushed)
Final Fantasies (Ok thier console RPGS and a bit too linear)
Dark Sun 1
Wasteland (It was a bit old when I played it (95), plus you have to read out of printed manual for storyline.)
BTW did Arcanum get released today? 8/21 It was supposed to.
Last edited by Moral Hazard on 29-08-2001 at 08:47
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Rex Little
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Ultima III
Ultima IV
Dark Sun 1
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Buck Birdseed
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Khoon Ki Pyasi Dayan (1988)
Nov 2000
time: 05:15
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Moral: I would largely agree- for a pen and paper RPG. A CRPG never offers the same opportunities for character expansion nor in fact social interaction as a pen-and-paper game does. The fact that it has to be kept open means that the story irrevocably suffers, as does almost all charactersiation. You just don't get interesting characters in a CRPG. As your imagination, open in a pen-and-paper game, gets restricted to what's essentially going to be two or three linear paths (or even worse, one with each "mistake" leading to instant death or worse, "game killing" meaning you cannot progress even though you're allowed to continue playing), what a game like Ultima ends up as is a badly-written old-skool (ie. Instant Death) Adventure Game with half-hearted action elements thrown in. The actual "game" (except for following the usually stale and clichéd plots slavishly) is reduced to being effective in inventory management.
Example: I recently tried the Icewind Dale demo. After turging through the first village, engaging in really stupid conversations through a convulted interface, I equip my weapons I bought at random, painstakingly take my group of faceless nobodies through the only exit available and immediately get slaughtered by the weakest kind of enemy within seconds. No indication is given as to what I did wrong, possibly some kind of group "stance" thing. I quit and uninstall. That just about sums up my "enjoyment" of this type of thing.
Basically, the CRPG is like a really old adventure game full of instant deaths and "game killing" mistakes, with pointless, anal pseudo-action sequences drawing the attention away from the actual story/puzzles, with faceless characters that lazy game designers expect you to provide the personality for yourselves in your head. It's certainly not expressed in the game.
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Moral Hazard
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of jack
Jul 1999
time: 01:15
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Snapcase:
First let me say your obviously looking for an adventure game when you play an RPG, and you'll never find it.
I assume your speaking of Ultima IX, because your description of it is quite accurate. It was a bad adventure game, with a pathetic action element, built on even more pathetic engine. I only got as far as Buccaneers Den before giving up on it. As far as I could tell the plot was as linear as any adventure.
Icewind Dale I can't really comment on it since I've never played it but I will anyway. It was designed for the Diablo player, who loves hack and slash. The plot and the characters were an after thought.
Concerning 'game killing' mistakes. That's nothing short of bad game design; unless of course you decide to exterminate an entire town (an enjoyable past time of mine in Ultima VII), in which case you expect the game not to continue meanifully; As Iolo put it 'I don't think we should be doing this Avatar' ) .
Instant death is often the logical conclusion to a players illogical action, like attacking an important NPC without provocation.
To the meat of the discussion. Non-Linearity and chosing your own destiny. I'm not talking about two or three linear paths, but more along the lines of Fallout 1 and 2, which had about 20 different ending sequences (ok, ok it was a bunch of parts which changed according to your actions in particular towns). But the ultimate end isn't even the point, the fact that almost every sub-quest had two or more conclusions, which would effect how NPC treated you thru out the game world is. Say you killed off somebody in one town his brothers might come looking for you etc. Sometimes the sub-quests contribute to the GECK quest, but often not. Hell you can skip all these towns and grab the GECK almost immediately (If you stumble in the right direction for long enough), so you weren't really confined. I hope that explains what I mean by non-linearity. Fallout of course is one in a hundred.
I started by saying that you'd never find an adventure (story) in an RPG, but you probably will in Planescape. Even though your character is your own, your past lives are nicely detailed as you discover them through out the game. Not to mention several of your potential party member have deep character, also discovered as the game unfolds. The story is quite good also, on par with most adventure games.
Last edited by Moral Hazard on 30-08-2001 at 07:55
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Bob Dornan
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Baldur's Gate I + II
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06-08-2001 21:03
My only foray into pen-and-paper RPG's featured a DM who created adventures far more linear than any CRPG I've ever played, although they were adventures without any sort of depth and which held my interest for about a week (at which point I called it quits).
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