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I mean, COME ON, does this rule make any sense at all? How often does this happen? Was Stalingrad or Waterloo decided by bribery and corruption?
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Bribing units is OK.
Bribing CITIES is ridiculous!
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Jim W
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Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada
Sep 1999
time: 05:12
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There is a place for bribery. It was extensively used in Ancient times, and even up into the pre-Napoleonic period. In the later periods, it was a little more classy, not "here's 38 gold, come over to my side." More likely the leader would be approached and told that he could get a high-class title, with the lands and so on that went with it, if he brought his men over to your side.
It's hard to write a program making all the various permutations happen, so the stacking prohibition (you can't bribe a unit if there're a whole lot of units around watching it) and the Democratic prohibition (at a certain stage, troops are more loyal to the nation than to the leader).
That last one is a pest, of course, because not all nations reach a that stage at the same time. Fascist Italians surrendered very quickly. Fascist Germans fought stubbornly, at great odds.
As for modern bribery, all of France was not conquered by the Germans; a large southern section was permitted to rule itself (Vichy France) in return for surrender. A bit more than 684 gold, but it worked. And France today is still trying to get over that one.
Marshal Petain, who could quite easily have been a Nazi, ran Vichy France for the Germans, and ought to have been hung as a traitor after the war. It was realized, however, that if Petain was executed, they'd have to execute a lot more, plus put about a quarter of France in prison to be watched over by the other three quarters.
That, of course, would mean a civil war, so they put Petain in prison as a collaborator, which meant they could then ignore lesser collaborators, and try to keep the country together.
Which was another sort of bribe, really.
Anyhow, I get sort of annoyed if someone brib nes my Alpine troops, but then, I try to stick everybody in stacks.
And on occasion, I bribe their Marines.
I guess you gotta take the bad with the good.
Jim W
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Venger
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Keeper of the Can-O'Whoopass
Jan 1970
time: 23:12
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For modern units, it's somewhat ridiculous. I have it turned off for all modern units except for Mercenaries.
Older times it makes more sense - most older armies were mercenary in nature, or made up of peasant classes.
City bribery is another thing altogether. It should never be allowed, and I have considered removing the diplomat and spy units from the game.
Venger
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i myself hate city bribing and dips in general, i changed the cost and was reamed about it during a tribe game. i forgot i changed it and i was the host...
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Well, I see this thread becoming one of those 300-post-Ah-threads, just like the móuntain city thread... 
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Jim W
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Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada
Sep 1999
time: 05:12
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Again, bribing of cities was probably more done than bribing armies or army units, in the Ancient era, and even up into the modern era.
There are some irregularities about it, but then again there are some irregularities in building King Richard's Crusade if you're not the English. Or Michelangelo's Cathedral if you're not the Papal States.
And if you're the Spanish, do you build trirems, or wait until you've discovered Navigation so you can build Caravels?
I could go on and on. Why don't you just use the rules as they are, and enjoy the game?
My personal pet peeve was the names of the Civs and their cities. I've mentioned before that I'm going through progressively and renaming Civs and Cities (and Leaders)so as not to have the Babylonians and the Spanish competing at 4000 BC.
Bribery? Well, I do wish there were a way to tie it into something other than Democracy. Say, for instance, Industrialization. But even these days bribery happens. Why do you think the WTO ruled against Canadian drug patent laws?
Jim W
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tobyr
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Princeton, NJ USA
Oct 1999
time: 05:12
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Alexander the Great's entire advancing army was bribed to turn away from (and not sack) Jerusalem.
Bribing of both cities and units has a basis in fact, but is unrealistic, because: HEY, it's a game!!! (Isn't it?)
- toby
------------------
toby robison
criticalpaths@mindspring.com
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Of course there was always that incident where the GrossDeutchland panzer division was bought off with cream donuts and beer and went over to the Russians in 1945.
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Oldman
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Livingstone, Lord Protector of London
Apr 2000
time: 05:12
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AH, Get off your high horse!!! ha ha, sorry i just had to say it!!! 
I agree with you guys saying that city bribes are too cheap, but if it's not in the rules.txt what can we do about it?!?!
And Jim W has a point, it's not technically about going upto washington and saying here's 2k, now put up our flag mate!!!! It's more about expending money, to corrupt, trick, undermine, subervert and cajole the city officials around to your way of thinking!!
Nicollo Machiavelli (The Prince) talks about several french states being "bribed" to change allegiance. And Machiavelli is God, So There!!!! 
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I think bribing cities is perfectly acceptable.
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Don't forget, during the Cold War, the US and Soviets bribed every country they could get their hands on. They just called it "foreign aid."
I think bribing units is just as acceptable as building a city on a mountain hex.
*cough* stirring things up again, are we, Horse?
Anybody got a throat lozenge?
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Bribing a city is the equivlant to having a city surrender to you so they don't get killed. So I can see where bribing a city to take control of it is possible.
Bribing an unit is very unlikely in real life, but to pay to have them surrender and become no longer active would be more real.
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I'd like to know how people justify bribing ships?
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05-05-2000 20:29
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