25-12-2000 06:27									#31
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I dunno, I never use crusaders... whenever i go for an early conquest I always use knights. I get STWA and just go hog-wild. I guess it just went with my research path. I never usually got Monotheism until later in the gamer, anyways.

	26-12-2000 15:49									#32
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Ken
Barb pikemen, 'owsthat?

	27-12-2000 05:03									#33
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Pikemen show up with Feudalism and the barbs upgrade their units when ever someone discovers the appropriate techs. That's why you can get barb artillery and fanatics later in the game.

Ken

	27-12-2000 11:16									#34
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Crusaders. Big attack factor is what it's all about. I also like catapults, cannons, artillery, etc.

	27-12-2000 14:52									#35
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Ken
Have you really met barb pikemen?
I have played many games and never seen the pike of one...
There is a very complete and interesting paper about barbs written by William Keenan (link to "the barbarian paper" in SG's GL). No barb pike mentioned there either.

	27-12-2000 17:11									#36
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The barbs have units which are offensive. (Archers/Elephants/Knights etc). The execption is perhaps Partisans - much better defenders than attackers as they (with every square being a "road")have access to good defensive terrain.

I never met a barb Pikeman or a Phalanx.

---------

SG (2)

	27-12-2000 17:54									#37
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I ran into a Viking town taken over by barbs last night. I don't recall who was defending but that might be the avenue through which barb pikemen appear.

BTW. I founded a town with a goody hut within the city limits, expecting to get a no-barb tip. It disappeared! Was I too slow or what?

------------------
Frodo lives!

	27-12-2000 18:49									#38
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Maybe, but if the hut was on a grass shield square or a food special, it is very likely that when the city was founded, that square was chosen to be worked. If that happens, the hut dissappears. If there is a chance that a square with a hut is going to be selected if I build a city, I'll tip the hut first.

RAH

	27-12-2000 19:03									#39
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I didn't know that (about the worker). Thanks, rah.

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Frodo lives!

	28-12-2000 11:46									#40
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The only source of Barb Pikemen that I have encountered was from captured cities. These may have been occasions that were flukes, but they were not in a scenario game. There have been several games where I captured a city from someone who had a defender tech that I not reached yet or were otherwise in the build process of something that I was missing the tech to build. Instead of reverting to something that I could build the city continued building the previous item only with the shield box reset to zero.

This could be what happened in my case except with the barbarians capturing the city instead of myself. Also I have bribed barb cities that contained pikemen.

Ken

	29-12-2000 10:03									#41
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Never seen barb pikemen. Have seen barb riflemen and barb cavalry. Ken may be on to something in the "keep on building mode." If a UNIT is in production when they take a city, perhaps they go right on making that one. Don't have any explanation for my two sightings otherwise. Barb leaders do not bribe, although they become diplos if bribed.

	29-12-2000 10:59									#42
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That could also explain the reported sightings from time to time of non-scenario barb armor. None of the reporting players have been able to do more than say that it happened, because no one thought to save the game at that point.

Barb pikemen, when they occur, are a nucience more than a threat since the attack factor is so low. But, I don't relish meeting a bunch of barb tanks at deity, raging hords. Especially since the barbs are supposed to keep producing the same unit that captures a city. I sure don't want a barb tank to blow into a size 5 or 6 city and start kicking out more tanks.

Ken