28-12-2000 19:46									#1
	Goody huts Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

This thread topic is goody huts. Let's see how much we know.

italics is things that I dont know.

1. Mercenaries
Sometimes are NON supported and sometimes aren't.

The whether the ai has a city nearer than you theory isn't totally reliable IMO. ther theories?
I think that William Keenans barb paper tells about which mercenaries you get with different techs, but I don't remember the URL for it. Could someone find this?

2. Knowledge
You won't get knowledge after the discovery of invention, though some people have reported otherwise. Could somebody clarify?

3. Advanced Tribe
Sometimes in the later game, advanced tribes of more than 1 citizen have appeared, sometimes with improvements.
Is it tech discoveries that make superadvanced tribes, or number of turns elapsed?

4. Barbarians
1-8 barbarians appear
What does WK's Barb Paper say on this?

5. Nomads
Sometimes are NON supported.
theories?

6. Weeds grow in empty ruins
You get jack diddly squat.

Does someone know the probability of getting each type on different terrains?


[This message has been edited by SilverDragon (edited December 28, 2000).]

	28-12-2000 19:52									#2
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BTW, where is that darned 'hut knowledge' thread? I want to find it but it disappeared.


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	28-12-2000 20:12									#3
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1. Mercenaries are supported by the nearest city. If the nearest city belongs to another civ, the unit is unsupported (NONE). William Keenan's barbarian paper is at http://sleague.apolyton.net/Guides/sldt_barbtechs.shtml

5. In my experience, nomads are always unsupported.

6. In several years of playing Deity/raging, I've never seen an empty hut. There was considerable debate about what settings allow empty huts.

Edit: advanced tribes can only occur on grassland or plains squares.
[This message has been edited by DaveV (edited December 28, 2000).]

	29-12-2000 02:34									#4
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3. Appears to be passage of time. Haven't seen any research on this. In recent game got a city with 2 improvements after having gotten one with 3 improvements. Really threw me off, as I had thought the process to be linear. (Lot of destruction of city improvements in major war in between. Maybe that has something to do with it.)

4. Also passage of time as to numbers apparently. Haven't done any extensive evaluation on this.

	29-12-2000 02:35									#5
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Silver Dragon,
Look at http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum1/HTML/001650.html?0#0 problem 4 - it applies to advances from goody huts. Probable outcome is that you can't get advance from a hut without prerequisite.

I would be interested about frequency of individual goody results. Has any type of result (mercenary, scroll of ancient wisdom, barbarians...) the same probability of appearance? I am interested especially about advances delaying monarchy. If scroll of wisdom is found, is it really random, or is there any system that prefers ones advances over others?
[This message has been edited by SlowThinker (edited January 02, 2001).]

	29-12-2000 04:12									#6
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I did a little informal test awhile back and what I "saw" was you are approx. 2/3 more likely to get a nomad if you don't have any NON settlers allready on the SAME land mass.I often delay a hut tip until my NON settler has founded a new city for this reason.Doesn't always work out but I am convinced that some "control" over hut contents is possible.

	29-12-2000 12:32									#7
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Probably already knew this but in my experiences:

Advanced Tribes and Mercenaries are in goody huts when very close to another civ.

Knowledge and Gold when fairly distant away from other civs.

Nomads frequent on a smaller island.

	29-12-2000 16:17									#8
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1. Dave answered.
2. I would stick to "no knowledge after invention" (seems that those who mentioned otherwise had been using the cheat menu or peaking at "rules.txt").
3. No idea.Should I care? (IMO the question with advanced tribes is not finding them, but keeping them).
4. WK mentions up to 39 barbs (and a setting named "wrath" able to give over 100!). Read it, it's fun.
5. and 6. My experience is similar to Dave's.
More precisely, I would say that, playing deity, you get NO empty huts if you choose raging hordes, and MANY empty huts if you choose villages only (RB and RT somewhere in between).

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	29-12-2000 20:39									#9
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ST
I ran a test with goody huts a few weeks ago (100 huts tipped by the Aztecs, results in my thread "3 arrows" strategy).
Of course much more testing is needed, but I also enjoy playing the game now and then. Would you like to tip 100 huts? (it takes about 3 hours, but you are allowed to think about the SGs testing 5000 starts, it helps!).

	30-12-2000 00:02									#10
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6. I have gotten PLENTY of these. Dave, have you always played Deity/Raging? That could very well be it since I have never played on these settings. Could the probabitlity of getting an emtpy hut be considerably lessened at thehigher levels in an attempt to even out play? Or maybe it's something to make the lower levels that much harder.

	30-12-2000 19:26									#12
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It might interest some who are still skeptical that I always play with Raging Hordes, though never on deity (always prince-king-emperor). I've never gotten an empty hut that gives: "jack diddly squat."
Imagine my jealousy when my friend plays for 5 minutes on my computer on Chieftan with villages only and gets 5 of those huts in a row!

	03-01-2001 04:13									#15
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I have never had an empty hut in raging hordes. Before I came to Apolyton I would play on Villages only and I would get lots of empty huts.

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	03-01-2001 19:31									#16
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5. Like DaveV, never had a nomad result that was supported. All are "NONE." Additionally, I've not noticed a pattern of not getting a new nomad while supporting one or more NONE settlers on a given continent. In fact, I often have two or three already operating on a continent when another will turn up. May just be me.

6. I've always played raging hordes. I didn't even know the 'weeds' option was possible. Have never seen it; don't want to either.


[This message has been edited by Blaupanzer (edited January 03, 2001).]

	03-01-2001 19:45									#17
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Yeah Blaupanzer, same experiences, never seen a supported settler result.

Thought that there was a limit on non-settlers on the same continent but experience has provided exceptions.

Always played at raging/deity. I agreed to play a lower setting MP game and freaked the first time I found an empty hut. Last time I agreed to that

RAH

	03-01-2001 19:47									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I have often picked up a new nomad with only one or two cities started, usually when I have got a very bad starting position. (What a joy - free roads, early mines..)

It fits with my totally untested theory that the game tries to achieve what it sees as some balance between starting terrain, proximity to civs, size of landmass, starting techs and early huts.

Some times, on nice open empty terrain, I will uncover hundreds of cells without finding a single hut.

As for the weeds: we know that a random generator picks the event as you tip the hut (restarts give different results). When the random number generator returns a result that says "Barbs", it checks to see if the game is set to "Raging". If Yes, you get Barbs, if No, you get "weeds". IMHO.

	04-01-2001 02:19									#19
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Fergus Horkan
go into the map editor, create a world with all land and you can see the hut pattern.

And from MP experience, the software has no clue on what constitutes a fair start for all civs.


RAH

	04-01-2001 17:56									#20
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I just found a size 4 advanced tribe with temple and marketplace in the Giga Map succession game (see this thread). It was only AD 1140, but I already had the invention tech. I didn't need any improvements for happiness, since I was already in fundamentalism (via SoL).

This was MGE with the 1.3 patch.
[This message has been edited by DaveV (edited January 04, 2001).]

	04-01-2001 19:54									#21
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suas! Good observation! I had never thought of it that way, but that is exactly my experience.

Have others here not noticed the same tendency?

	05-01-2001 06:16									#22
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You can't have more NON-settlers than you have cities: http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum3/HTML/001103.html
[This message has been edited by cpp (edited January 04, 2001).]