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Lenius
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This is a very serious RANT!
It's bad enough us Celts (Welsh and the Scots) get tagged along with the English in real life, but doing it in a Civilisation game is going TO FAR. Not only do you do that but the supposed Civ3 Britain has Elizabeth I as it's leader, i hate to give you a history lesson but i'm gonna. Elizabeth I NEVER ruled over Britain. So called Britain didn't exist under her reign, James I was the first King of so called Britain but was no means politically united, in fact it wasn't for another 100 odd years.
Please I implore you FIRAXIS, don't include Britain just return it back to England. I may not like the English to much but they deserve a place in Civ3 on their own.
As a proud Welsh nationalist I simply could not play Civ3 if Britain is included.
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Kenobi
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quote:
Originally posted by Lenius
As a proud Welsh nationalist I simply could not play Civ3 if Britain is included. |
That'd be your loss, boyo.
But seriously, Wales had already been absorbed into the English kingdom, and Elizabeth was succeeded by her Nephew, King James VI of Scotland. He became James I of a (the) British united kingdom.
Elizabeth also came from the Tudor dynasty, which was Welsh, I believe. I agree with you one one level, though: we should have "Britons" or "English" and Celts". The Celts deserved to get in as their own civ, but that's just my opinion.
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tniem
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Hope College
Apr 2000
time: 00:15
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Hey were are all the Polish screaming about being included with the Germans through history and now in Civ? What about the Macedonians and the Greeks?
Come on, not playing Civ III because the English are included? So did you play Civ I or II? This is just plain silly.
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Lenius
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In my opinion their should be a seperate Celt and a seperate English civilisations in Civ3. If their isn't going to be a Celt Civ (Ancient or Modern) please don't tag us with the English to create Britain theirs enough tension in this area without introducing it to Civilisation.
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XarXo
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of the "I agree"
Jul 2000
time: 05:15
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This letter is long, but I believe that could be good explain the background of this situation:
I'm catalan, and I'm quite nationalist.
In the past, Spain was Castilla-León Crown and the Catalanoaragonese Crown (known as Kingdom of Aragón and Count of Barcelona, by the shortest name, "Crown of Aragón"). Catalanesque, my/our language, is spoken in big cities, Barcelona (the olympic one  ) with a 4'7 milions in its metropolitan area, València with 2'2, and Mallorca with 0'5, also there another cities. Catalanesque is the ONLY official in the tiny state of Andorra, is small, but is independent and, so, catalanesque is internationally official. In the last thirty years (Franco Decline + Transition + Predemocratic State) the catalanesque has grown from 5 to 10 millions of speakers and 6 million of catalanesque-base speakers. The castillians is starting to be strange (again) in some zones of Catalonia, thus castillian ("spanish") only was spoken here in these zones the last 150 years (in main cities, sooner of course).
In the XIII-XV we controlled all the western mediterranean, we had important people in the cultural spheres (Ramon Llull, one of the most important ones), we had popes in the Vaticano (we ressurected Rome The "bit-barbarian" valencian family of Borgia make a lot of bad things, but a big ones too!). In a short period, a catalan flag was at the top of the Parthenon, in Athina. We wasn't a superpower, but a "big one" yes.
Castillian is spoken by the 35% of Catalonia and 47% in Valencian Country too, but the most important isn't that the language is big and international, the important is that we are four nations (Catalans, Valencians, Balears and Andorrans) that respect the "Spain" ideal, because *could* be a great thing. In Germany there is a true democratic and federal state, so, here could be it too. Also, castillian (NOTE: "Español" name for the language was used in Spain the first time at 1927, the true name is castillian) is a *great* language with *a lot* of speakers, is a great thing, but it isn't our language, so we want have our own language in the top position, and castillian in the second too!
Now, UK started something similar with Wales, Scotland and North Eire, in 30 (more or minus) years the situation could be similar to us (but with a TRUE democratic system), and THIS will be the time to create a state where all the people could sense a relationship to it. Nationalism are uncomprenisble in USA because the only one that they have was the amerindians, and in the past were exterminate (Spanish Empire made the same with Incans and Aztecs, we aren't better!!), the only secessionist movement is in Texas, and is pathetic.
So, if you're lucky and your civ appears in the game, is a great thing, but when our civ (catalan) doesn't appear we think (OK; China had a big empire, USA Missiles, Aztecs must exist to full the empty America, etc...) an the more-known-one not too (Spain/Spanish), with a great past like has Spain, you think that we're again in a Anglo-centered game.
Zulus only were known by their wars with anglic ones, the same with Iroquese, in the place of them I preffer Ethiopia or Incans (The Birú) if you say me that "these continents are empty without them". So, please, understand us.
Now I believe that you can think as us, and why the Non-England ones are angry with the "Britain" name, and us with the "Spain" one. The good one MUST be "Castilla" and "England", or use the original AOK style, "Iberians", "Anglos", etc... Yes, they won a lot of wars, but we still here, and the names that FIRAXIS choosed (and some of the civs) are only thinked to reproduce the winners' wars, not an alternative.
If there is a problem with European civs, "Mediterraneans", "Nordics" and "Celts" could be prefectly the only three civs, and everybody will be happy. And for americans, "Colonials". What could happened if the Lousiana State emerged as a great country? "La Unité du Pays de l'Amerique", "UPA"?? 
Last edited by XarXo on 16-08-2001 at 08:15
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Tingkai
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To find the Northwest Passage
Aug 2001
time: 13:15
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Why should the Celts deserve to be one of the top 16 civs? They were barbaric tribes that were destroyed centuries ago.
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Lenius
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quote:
Oh, and to any Welsh nationalists - Wales becoming its own country is a bad idea - Western Europe doesn't need any third world countries |
Very funny Red, apart from Wales being a small country, England is most to blame for Wales being poor - (if you want me to go into reasons why i shall) having said that far from all of Wales is poor, anyone whos been to Cardiff will know that, Cardiff is one of the fastest growing cities in uk i do believe if not western europe.
Anyway I'm glad to see that the vast majority would prefer Britain not to be in Civ3 and to be changed to England. Afterall it would only take a few text adjustments (from what i can see) to solve this problem that is certainly highly contentcious to people like myself.
So FIRAXIS please take note.
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Provost Harrison
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The farce is strong with this one.
Feb 2000
time: 05:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Lenius
Very funny Red, apart from Wales being a small country, England is most to blame for Wales being poor - (if you want me to go into reasons why i shall) having said that far from all of Wales is poor, anyone whos been to Cardiff will know that, Cardiff is one of the fastest growing cities in uk i do believe if not western europe.
Anyway I'm glad to see that the vast majority would prefer Britain not to be in Civ3 and to be changed to England. Afterall it would only take a few text adjustments (from what i can see) to solve this problem that is certainly highly contentcious to people like myself.
So FIRAXIS please take note. |
Well before you start off on saying that England is the baddy and Wales has been victimised, try looking within the UK as well. Look at the North or at regions of the Midlands who are as poor, if not poorer than the Welsh. There are a lot of northern cities that look a lot more run down than the Welsh cities I have seen. It is a greater problem than Welsh vs. English, it is one of regional inequalities throughout the United Kingdom.
Well looking at the 'civ of the week' page, it says English, so I presume it will be the English that are in.
Which reminds me from the original civ. There was only one female leader in the game, Elizabeth. But none of the text change. It was interesting to see 'Greetings from he who makes mortals tremble, Elizabeth of the English'
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10-08-2001 06:49
I'm sorry but I think that is just really stupid, and cannot be excused.
Cultural richness arises from diversity, no doubt about it.
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