10-08-2001 22:42									#1
	Pillage! Pillage! Pillage! Tired of ads?

All signs point to that we can finally raze enemy cities to ground. Well, to that I say, YEE HAW!

Let me explain. You see, I'm not a warlike person. I'm a perfectionist, see. I like placing my cities in perfect order, so that they won't overlap and there is as little as possible space left unused between them.

However, enemy civs don't do this. Therefore, as I can't stand the sight of my perfect grid being ruined, I'm often forced to "re-Settle" all of inhabitants, using steady stream of Settlers and starvation. This is slow and cumbersome. However, now I can just burn their cities to the ground! Ha ha ha! No longer will my perfect city order be ruined!

My god, I'm starting to sound like some insane emperor.

	11-08-2001 00:26									#2
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I, too, am a perfectionist, but it seems that we may still not be able to do this. I'm not sure it's included, for one. And also - I believe there is some unhappiness associated with things like that.

	11-08-2001 00:41									#3
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Stefu, I know exactly how you feel. How I avoided entering goody huts, anxious that a city would sprung up out of it...

Unhappiness? Who cares about unhappiness when you have the ability to lay down your cities in a perfectly smooth pattern rivalling any person’s tiled floor.

Mao would have been proud.

	11-08-2001 00:52									#4
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I agree!

I remember a game I played in CTP, when I catured an enemy city which was ruining my order. Since only cities size 3 or below could be disbanded (and it was around size 12), I had to buy loads a settlers, putting them all together on one tile. Then I executed them all (well, disbanded ). I know it sounds a bit Nazi-esque but the order! The order!

	11-08-2001 00:53									#5
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All four of you are insane!


Every hear of topography? Tile-gridded evenly spaced cities?

	11-08-2001 01:10									#6
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VHEEE MUST FOLLOW ORDERS!

	11-08-2001 01:15									#7
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nothing wrong whit a little genocide

	11-08-2001 01:17									#8
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quote: Originally posted by UberKruX VHEEE MUST FOLLOW ORDERS!

YES! I must have no hethenous foreign cities polluting my master race!

I do hate it in Civ2 when a civ (usually the Indians) builds a city RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF MY EMPIRE. So I destroy it and the build another! GAAH!

	11-08-2001 01:18									#9
	Re: Pillage! Pillage! Pillage! Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Stefu Let me explain. You see, I'm not a warlike person. I'm a perfectionist, see. I like placing my cities in perfect order, so that they won't overlap and there is as little as possible space left unused between them.

Above is why I want Firaxis to add the scenario/map-creating option of manually point-and-click potential AI-city locations at regular good-looking intervals all over the map, in much the same way you can add any terrain-types with the map-editor.

The AI is then restricted to only (or at least preferably) found AI-cities on these pre-edited spots. These potential AI city-locations is of course invisibe for the player - but they work as "lighthouses" for erratic AI settler-units, beaming them home to really god locations.

The underlying idea is that if not the AI can found cities 90% optimally (and it cant), maybe the human scenario/map-creator can help it along. I have promoted this idea several times, but I have never got any official confirmations from Firaxis about this one, so I guess they havent implemented it.

	11-08-2001 01:18									#10
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"Every hear of topography? Tile-gridded evenly spaced cities? "

Ever heard of terraforming and engineers? We don’t let ourselves outdone by some silly mountains and deserts, there’s nothing our vast armies of engineers can’t handle. (only those annoying seas were a little harder to handle)

Sure, we were pushed aside in civ and civ2, warmonger-centric games they were... but now that there’s culture, nothing can stop us now.

	11-08-2001 01:49									#11
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Good, more insane emperors. I hope Firaxis will satisfy our orderly tendencies.

At the very least, have some AI scripting to prevent those ¤%/#¤% clusterfucks of cities, where AI fits 7+ cities in small 5*5 area.

	11-08-2001 01:58									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Stefu At the very least, have some AI scripting to prevent those ¤%/#¤% clusterfucks of cities, where AI fits 7+ cities in small 5*5 area.

The Morganites from SMAC springs to my mind as an especially bad case, but I gues there where others as well.

	11-08-2001 02:00									#13
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I agree with including the option to disband cities (below a certain size). By golly, when I control a continent, NOBODY else is allowed to have a city on it. That was a big problem for me in the last game I played. It ruined my reputation, attacking and buying all those spurious cities.

B

	11-08-2001 02:27									#14
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quote: The Morganites from SMAC springs to my mind as an especially bad case, but I gues there where others as well.

Oh, any faction that would get plopped in the middle of Monsoon Jungle. And there sually was at least one.

	11-08-2001 02:39									#15
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Geez, I feel like a complete outcast. Early game I usually build my cities three tiles apart so I can march ground units between cities in a single turn. Sure they end up overlapping territory, but you don't have to have as many resources tied up in garrisons when you can easily share one spare defender between two or three cities. And in SMAC you don't need all the tiles in a city radius anyway once you get crawlers and orbital improvements so more cities equals more librarians, engineers, empaths, transcendi etc.

Granted, my empires are usually untidy, there is that.

	11-08-2001 02:57									#16
	God, what a load of perfectionist gibberish Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

SMAC was a perfectionist’s horror, it was too complicated to shape the land according to you utopian views, and which faction to use? Yang was too militaristic, Zakharov was too haughty, Deirdre too greeny...

I hope we can edit governments, I hated to choose between fundie, demo and commie, since none really suits your idealistic images. The unification govt from moo2 would come closest...

Echinda, perfect empires always had patterns with cities having 3 tiles between, it was necessary if you wanted to utilise all the land. (you simply couldn’t allow one single tile get away unused)

	11-08-2001 03:24									#17
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Sorry, I meant [city][tile][tile][city]. That way a ground unit could march on a road from one city to the next in one turn when a bad guy showed up within striking distance. I think you mean [city][tile][tile][tile][city] on an almost diagonal, so you could tile the cross shaped city radii together. That pattern leaves you needing two turns to reinforce a city with foot soldiers, though, which is far too aggravating for me to put up with for the sake of geographic perfection.

Too each their particular foible, I guess.

	11-08-2001 03:44									#18
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Of course our perfect countries have railroads, (for the lack of any futuristic means of transport such as jumpgates) so we don't have any transport problems.

	11-08-2001 03:47									#19
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What's a little mass genocide, declaration of war or destruction of an empire if it means you have pretty, evenly-spaced cities?

I'm a peaceful perfectionist but if anyone builds so much as a sandcastle on my land ....

	11-08-2001 03:51									#20
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This could add a new dimension to the game- the other civ's civilians hate you more if you deport them from their captured cities or kill all of them.

	11-08-2001 03:54									#21
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quote: Originally posted by red_jon I'm a peaceful perfectionist but if anyone builds so much as a sandcastle on my land ....

Same here.

	11-08-2001 03:59									#22
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quote: Originally posted by red_jon I'm a peaceful perfectionist but if anyone builds so much as a sandcastle on my land ....

Exactly

	11-08-2001 04:04									#23
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Uuuurgh. I played one game where i had about 8 modern cities all nicely developed, perfectly spaced. Then the bloody Indians come and build a city about 2 tiles away from my capital. AND they were my allies!

Well, after that I had one less ally....

	11-08-2001 11:44									#24
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I also must place all my cities in a pre-arranged pattern. Those conquered cities were such a bother, esp I can't build cities next to each other in Civ 2.

I hope I can do that in Civ 3, so I can make use of some of those population points.

	11-08-2001 19:11									#25
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quote: Ever heard of terraforming and engineers? We don’t let ourselves outdone by some silly mountains and deserts, there’s nothing our vast armies of engineers can’t handle. (only those annoying seas were a little harder to handle)

You're right on, Colon. That slovenly mess of rock, sand, and muck must make way for our orderly array of ocular perfection! Progress! Civilization! Our manifest destiny!

And don't be disheartened, enlightened friend at the perceived limits to our grandiose plans, for the Japanese are already making artificial islands to house ugly ports and noisy airports. After golf courses, cities are the next logical extension!

And Michael Lewis, in The New New Thing writes: The Rich, and especially the new American rich, suddenly aquired a taste for obscenely big boats [...] The boats had ceased to be merely boats. They were tiny floating city-states. [Emphasis added]

Do you realize what this means?! Those trivial wet ocean things will no longer stand between us and the inevitable and divinely forseen coming of...the Immaculate Infinitely Extended Lattice.

Auugh! I must leave you now, for I am being racked by another vision...oh!...oh!...heh heh heh

	11-08-2001 21:19									#26
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Is it just me, or is the Perfectionist way of playing just a little bit Sociopathic? I know I wouldn't want any of you rearranging my living room furniture...

	11-08-2001 23:30									#27
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In Civ2 I always explored the land before I settled it and looked at the terrain very carefully. I always was debating wether I should build at a spot or the next one over. And I hate overlapping, I'd advoid it like a plague and consider one square of overlap if the terrain is good. Whenever I built a city near a swamp or jungle I'd send an army of engineers to tranform that worthless patch of land into a grassland. In fact some of the fun of Civ was designing a orderly and clean (it must be clean!!! no unconected roads or empty squares that are trapped in between cities and no pollution, I hate pollution) empire. The thing that annoyed me the most with Civ2 (aside of a stupid civ that built on my land and wrecked my order) is that sometimes a square would be out of my reach and building another city would result in too much overlap or it'd have to be on unsuitable terrain just to get the one square. And whenever I'd play on the world map (my favorite) I'd like to get resources in remote areas but can't because it's not worthwhile to build a city there. But with Civ3's boarders and colonies, I can get at squares that are trapped between cities or the ones in remote areas while keeping the infidels out. This is one of the reasons why I'm getting Civ3 the day it comes out.

	12-08-2001 01:28									#28
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Snapcase, have you ever checked the civ3 screensaver thread? I assure you those folks are unworldly up to a degree not known to us perfectionists, they’re talking about that stuff as if it were Jurassic Park III.

No, our insanity is surely a lot less harmful...

*puts on his paper hat while commanding his engineers for the umpteenth time to transform that friggin' sea tile*

	12-08-2001 01:34									#29
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i dont bother with that, i just try to put my major citys where they are in real life..

	12-08-2001 01:42									#30
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I must agree with Colon.
EVERY city will have all the tiles in it's range changed to farmland and railroad on grassland(except the seas ). And there will be not a single tile in our empire that will not follow these rules, even if it means millions of casualties for the other civs.