08-01-2001 00:40									#1
	Sewers and Aqueducts Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I am a little bit confused about these two city improvements....... i know i need an aqueduct to grow past size 8 and a sewer system past size 12.

What i am not sure about is whether or not i need the aqueduct to grow to size 13?

Can i sell the aqueduct once i build a sewer system? Or do i need both to keep growing both naturally or via WLTKD?

	08-01-2001 00:54									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

You need to keep both of them. The game always check for the presence of both before letting your population grow.

This can be seen when you capture an enemy city, and the aqueduct has been arbitrarily destroyed in bombardment. You will get the "needs aqueduct to grow" message.

	08-01-2001 01:53									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Okay, my question is:

Will you lose pop. down to 12 or 8 if you sell off (or lose) these sewer/aquaduct, or is the city simply prevented from growing any further until they are rebuilt?

	08-01-2001 02:46									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Your city will stay at its current size when you sell your aqueduct and sewer. In OCC games we do this all the time to get some extra gold and save the upkeep when the city has reached its maximum size.

	16-01-2001 00:50									#5
	Increase Your PM Length

Somewhat off topic, but I wait to build sewers and aqueducts until I absolutely have nothing else to build. Here is why...

As your city grows in size, you lose food stores and production shields. And I would much rather have a size 8 city with food stores of 15 surplus than a size 12 city with a 4 surplus. At least until I acquire refrigeration and build supermarkets to offset this added growth.

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	16-01-2001 02:16									#6
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

You don't lose sheilds.In fact by growing larger and having more citizens to work the land you will produce more sheilds.

15 surplus means there is room for 8 more citizens in that city.Best to grow a fast as possible I'd say.I'll take the size 12 with 4 surplus any day.Build a sewer and that is size 14 very soon.

Unless you are playing 1 SSC and size 8 support cities.This works well as you run 0 luxuries under Democracy with the right improvements or wonders.


[This message has been edited by Smash (edited January 16, 2001).]

	16-01-2001 11:56									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I'd back Smash on this one. Extra food only benefits you if you grow. Otherwise it's a waste.

I can see that you wouldn't want to grow if you're going to have disorder in the city, but even then a size 9 city with an entertainer is just as productive as a size 8 all content- unless you had to shift shield/trade production to food to maintain city size.

	16-01-2001 15:43									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

... and oft-times you can get away with a tax man or Ein instead of an Elvis - now you have a real gain.

Suggestion If you really don't want the city to grow beyond a certain size and you have food surplus - allow the city to nearly fill it's food box and then move all the non-trade special workers to either tax-men or eins (depending on your empire's current need) and keep tham there until the food box is empty - this gives a massive boost to your science/wealth - for the original concept here see Xin's thread 'Size 5 City Strategy' in the GL.



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	17-01-2001 07:06									#10
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if you effectifly build up your empire thereīs no need for sewer systems at all (maybe with some exceptions very late in the game), aqueducts cost much shields to build and an upkeep of 2o/turn, in the meantime you could crank out 2 setts which (hopefully) will add additional population and even more important large your territorial influence. when they finally grow to size 8 you got 16 pops instead of 4 at no running costs. this pays. of course playing on deity doesnīt pay that much.

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	17-01-2001 19:23									#11
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Sewers are highly necessary, especially if you plan on going to AC. You're just not going to build 320 shield Spaceship Modules in cities that produce 12 shields. While your arguments are good for the early to mid part of the game, once Industrialization comes to the world large cities work better.

It is true that 80 shields yield two Settlers that can build two small cities and eventually all three cities grow to size 8. But in such a small city, would you bother building a Factory, let alone 3 Factories? Size 8 cities are also too small to build or even take advantage of all the other mid to late game multipliers: Bank, University, Stock Exchange, Research Lab, Superhighways, (some kind of) power Plant, Manufacturing Plant. Other needed improvements also drain your treasury: Port Facility, Airport, even Barracks. Until you've airlifted a Freight from a size 24 city with Superhighways half-way around the world to deliver to another large city, you just haven't seen the power of large cities. Three size 8 cities just can't produce what one size 24 city can.

	18-01-2001 10:48									#12
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

yeah, yeah, yeah.....it depends on the settings of the game. as you may know iīm a mutliplayer civer and usually playing with 2x2x. in this case even size 8 cities can "produce" 20 shields and pollution - and factories arenīt necessary. large cities "only" pay with higher trade-income, but this isnīt that important.
in a regular civ-game esp. on deity building city-infrastracture is more important though the number of cities is still more important as their size.

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god made weed.....you donīt really think he fails sometimes?

weed god, chief of EUROPA
visit EUROPA: www.multispieler.de