21-08-2001 19:24									#31
	Re: Which unique leaders will be included in CivIII? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Alexander01 Romans: Scipio Africanus, Lucius Paullus, Gaius Marius, Lucius Sulla, Pompey, Crassus, Julius Caesar?*, Mark Antony, Augustus Caesar, Tiberius, Germanicus, Claudius, Vespasian, Titus, Otho, Vitellius, Galba, Nerva, Domitian, Trajan, Hadrian, Marcus Aurelius, Aurelian, Diocletian, Constantine, Valentinian, Aetius

Alexander, I noticed you mixed into the Roman list of leaders some with original Latin names and some with english version (Mark Antony).

That's not means to be a rant against you, I'm only asking if it's intended (may be they are better know with that name, out of Italy) or if you prefer I'll help you to convert them into original (latin) version.

Not that will be an easy task to me: I studied then in their Italian version, and I never studied latin
Still I suppose I can have less problem than you looking for the original, so if I can help let me know.

On the only Roman/ also Italian limits, about choice of military leaders I can't decide: it can sound a bit strange mixing the two, but OTOH we can't have medieval or modern Roman leader so I suggest to link name of leader to better related Civ III age:
So we'll have a list sorted for age, and the program can chose from the part of the list more appropriate for the game age of the leader appearence. What about this proposal?

So in late age ancient Civ can use name of general from nation that come later but built on the same culture.
No Scipio commander fighting with tank, please

	22-08-2001 07:56									#32
	Re: Re: Which unique leaders will be included in CivIII? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Adm.Naismith No Scipio commander fighting with tank, please

Why not? That's the fun part about Civ. Can you imagine Abe Lincoln as the American despot, or Hammurabi building a space ship to Alpha Centauri?

	24-08-2001 03:22									#33
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Great Economics:
Britain: Adam Smith
Germany: Karl Benz
America: Henry Ford
Russia: .... eh ...
Japanese: their must be a clever Japanese businessman, but I forgot the name
Greece: that rich millionaire, what's-his-name

	24-08-2001 04:24									#34
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quote: Originally posted by K.J.H. Great Economics: Greece: that rich millionaire, what's-his-name

Telly Savalas or Anthony Quinn?

Just kidding

Do you mean Aristotele Onassis, the man who married Jacqueline Kennedy?

	24-08-2001 21:49									#35
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Don't know.
But I don't think firaxis put economic leaders in the game, do they?

	26-08-2001 01:13									#36
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I really don't think Firaxis will include special scientists or economists in CivIII, though it would be cool if they did. Unfortunately, it would be hard to figure out just exactly what their impact would be. And it's hard enough with the military leaders.

Adm.Naismith - I don't need help converting the anglcized Roman names to their Latin form. I just feel that Firaxis will simply go with the most common renderings of names -- the most recognizable versions. Hence, Mark Antony instead of Marcus Antonius. This principle applies to other civs too; Cyrus instead of Kyrush, perhaps, and Nebuchadnezzar instead of Nebuchadrezzar (a closer rendering, meaning "Nebo protect the king [ie. Nebuchadrezzar]" instead of the Hebrews' derogatory slang "Nebo protect the donkey [ie. Nebuchadnezzar]." A more prefect spelling would be Nebu-kudur-usur.

Anyway, does anyone have more selections for the military list or should I just send it in to Firaxis/ And how should it be sent to Firaxis? I'm hesitant to send it through "Ask the Civ Team." maybe I should send it via private message to one of the Firaxis folks. What do you think?

And another brief question - who will be the next Civ of the Week? I'm leaning towards Persia, but it depends on which empire they're focusing on. Achaemenid, Parthin, Sassanid, Muslim? Depending on the system they're using, I would say either Persia, Rome, India or China will greet us next.

	26-08-2001 10:32									#37
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I'd be cool to have religious leaders as well. I love to see Jesus and Muhammed and Buddha or even Confucious walk around the map. But what could economic/scientic/religious leaders do on the map except walk around? I thought switching the entertainers in Civ2 were supposed to represent them.

	26-08-2001 10:51									#38
	Re: Which unique leaders will be included in CivIII? Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Alexander01 Iroquois: Tecumseh, Joseph Brant (Thayendanega)

Tecumseh was a Shawnee (Cherokee nation), not an Iroquois.
AFAIK these are the most famous Iroquois leaders:

Canaqueese (half Dutch! aka Jan Smits)
Dekanawidah, who should be the tribe leader
Hiawatha
Sagoyewatha
Thayendanega

	27-08-2001 14:23									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Sun Zi 36 I'd be cool to have religious leaders as well. I love to see Jesus and Muhammed and Buddha or even Confucious walk around the map. But what could economic/scientic/religious leaders do on the map except walk around? I thought switching the entertainers in Civ2 were supposed to represent them.

Religious are always "hot and dangerous" arguments here so better skip this...

Great Artists, OTOH, should deserve a list by themselves, but I'm too lazy to start one

quote: Adm.Naismith - I don't need help converting the anglcized Roman names to their Latin form. I just feel that Firaxis will simply go with the most common renderings of names -- the most recognizable versions. Hence, Mark Antony instead of Marcus Antonius.

Sorry, I didn't want to offende you about Latin form help.

I don't think it's fair to consider that the international version of a game (i.e. that using english as language) should use names that are "most recognizable" by U.S.A. people alone. That could be applied to cities name too, as we never translate "New York" as "Nuova York": names should be kept as near as possible to the original.
OTOH, this is a minor issue, and I don't want to diminish your good effort to build a useful Great People list

Keep up the good work.

	29-08-2001 01:12									#40
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Adm.Naismith-

I apologize if I sounded offended. Such was not my intention.

And my version of Civ II allowed for English, French, and German. Therefore in expect that in each language version of CivIII that it will translate the names into the forms used in their countries. For example, the Assyrian king whose name in English is translated Sennacherib. In German, this name is spelled Sanherib. A simple change. Another example-- the English version will refer to Pharaoh Khufu, but the Greek will say Cheops. Therefore the Italian version will have the names in Italian format. The special Latin version for the Pope and his Secretary will have all the Roman names in their proper form.

Another policy would be to post all of the names from contemporary civilizations in their native forms, but translate for non-Latin alphabet using countries. So, Mao-Tse-tung instead of whatever they'd say in Mandarin, but Kaiser Wilhelm instead of Emperor William. Does that make sense?

	29-08-2001 11:35									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander01 Adm.Naismith- I apologize if I sounded offended. Such was not my intention.

OK, I'm happy you aren't offended by me. Closed

quote: And my version of Civ II allowed for English, French, and German. Therefore in expect that in each language version of CivIII that it will translate the names into the forms used in their countries. For example, the Assyrian king whose name in English is translated Sennacherib. In German, this name is spelled Sanherib.

Translation is becoming more and more a source of trouble, in game market. It often build on country distribution agreements to add weeks or months of late on game release and (worst, IMHO) hot needed patches

Not to mention it make things unnecessary complicated on international forums like this: "I win my battle against Mark Antony last night, then Giulio Cesare sent a diplomat to sign a treaty" - "I beg your pardon? Ah, are you speaking of Marcus Antonius and Giulius Caesare!"

quote: The special Latin version for the Pope and his Secretary will have all the Roman names in their proper form.

Never listened about "Citta' del Vaticano great Civ tournament"! May be I'll must double check next time I'll go to Rome

quote: Another policy would be to post all of the names from contemporary civilizations in their native forms, but translate for non-Latin alphabet using countries. So, Mao-Tse-tung instead of whatever they'd say in Mandarin, but Kaiser Wilhelm instead of Emperor William. Does that make sense?

A lot of sense, if not because some trouble with non-Latin alphabet translation that have different forms largely debated, when Mao-Tse-tung in other versions become Mao-Dze-dong or whatever else

When chosed an official source for names, Firaxis (and we too) should stay sticked to it

	04-09-2001 04:20									#42
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What do you say, folks? Any further names for the list? I'm going to do one more update and then send it in. So, fire away!

	16-09-2001 16:28									#43
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Your Iroquis list is pathetically short-more proof that Iroquis shouldnt be in civ3. however, its too late to change that, so after hours of painstaking research i found-

nothing, but i emailed some guy with an Iroquis page for a list
of leaders...

as for the idea of economists or scientists being leaders, i think its great! what if einstein had put that big brain of his to work on how to win the presidential election, then how to conquer the world?

1 problem- can you imagine adam smith, or whoever that economist was, walking around the map?

as for the scipio in the tank idea, why not? could wellington defeat alexander the great? could doenitz (german sub guy) win at trafalgar? could napolean conquer russia-in 1942? civilization is an alternate history game-what would happen if hitler were never born, if gunpowder was not discovered until 1856, if the Babylonians were on the axis side in WWII???

	16-09-2001 17:21									#44
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Thanks for the ideas, jdd2007. (I'm a dual citizen too, by the way). My sentiments exactly, regarding the alternate history. And this does raise the question: "How would economists and religous leaders behave? What would they do as they walk around the map?" Any ideas, folks? I've been too busy to update the list lately, but if anybody has ideas, send them in!

	16-09-2001 17:50									#45
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quote: Originally posted by red_jon How about good economic leaders or scientists? They could boost an empire (and actually I know a few ).

I also remember reading something about having cultural and scientific leaders and not just military leaders, but I don't know if we have confirmation of this or if it was only speculation. I do remember a screenshot showing some cultural leader though. Hmmmm.... will have to work on this.

Alexander01- Brilliant job BTW.

	16-09-2001 18:46									#46
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quote: What would they do as they walk around the map?

I do not believe they will walk around, probably just as in Colonization there will be a message and some overview which leaders joined you.

	17-09-2001 03:01									#47
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Wow!!! Somebody quoted me!!!

	17-09-2001 04:54									#48
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4 Roman leaders that ARE in the game as shown by a screenshot in an Australian magazine : Crassus, Hadrian, Austin, Nixon

	17-09-2001 12:41									#49
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quote: 4 Roman leaders that ARE in the game as shown by a screenshot in an Australian magazine : Crassus, Hadrian, Austin, Nixon

brad-could u give me a link here?

	18-09-2001 01:56									#50
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Sorry I can't, the picture is in a magazine and my scanner isn't working

	18-09-2001 03:29									#51
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well thanks anyway

	22-09-2001 23:13									#52
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Some more suggestions for leaders:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=25511

Quite a list

	19-10-2001 09:18									#53
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Anyone up for some potential expansion pack leadership?

We've got:

Spanish, Mongols, Arabs, Incas, Turks, Poles, Israelites, Phoenicians, Koreans, Ethiopians, Dutch, Portuguese, Maya, Vikings, Celts, and Byzantines to fill, not to mention anyone else you're interested in.