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Alexander01
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I have come up with a list of unique military leaders that are possibilities for CivIII. Please respond with any suggestions. Also, should leaders from non-included cultures that are associated with included civs be in? For example, should Babylon get Assyrian leaders? Should the "British" also get Scottish leaders? Should the Romans get Italian leaders? Oh, and an asterisk (*) indicates an animated leader that we are uncertain of that could just serve as a unique general unit.
Anyway, here's the list so far:
Americans: George Washington, Andrew Jackson, William Henry Harrison, Zachary Taylor, Winfield Scott, John B. Fremont, Ulysses S. Grant, Robert E. Lee, Thomas “Stonewall” Jackson, George B. McClellan, William T. Sherman, David Farragut, Raphael Semmes, David Porter, John “Blackjack” Pershing, George Patton, Dwight Eisenhower, Omar Bradley, George Marshall, Chester Nimitz, Douglas MacArthur, Norman Schwarzkopf, Colin Powell
Aztecs: Cuitlahuac, Cuauhtemoc, Quetzalcoatl, Motecuhzoma, Nezahualcoyotl, Itzcoatl, Tlacaelel, Acamapichtli, Axoquentzin, Opochtzin, Ahuitzotl
Babylonians: Marduk-Baladan, Nabopolassar, Nebuchadnezzar, Amil-Marduk, Neriglissar, Tiglath-Pileser, Sargon, Sennacherib, Esarhaddon, Assurbanipal, Assurnasirpal, Assurdan, Shamshi-Adad, Adad-Nirari, Shalmeneser, Ashpenaz, Arioch, Rab-shakeh, Labashi-Marduk, Nabonidus, Belshazzar, Nebuzar-adan, Nabo-nassar, Sardonapalus
British: Arthur, Alfred the Great, Edmund I, Athelstan, Harold Godwinson, William the Conqueror, Richard the Lionhearted, Edward I, Edward III, Edward, the Black Prince, Henry V, Sir Francis Drake, Sir Walter Raleigh, John, Duke of Marlborough, Oliver Cromwell, John Burgoyne, Charles Cornwallis, Arthur, Duke of Wellington, Lord Horatio Nelson, Sir Charles Gordon, Sir Garnet Wolseley, Lord Robert Baden-Powell, Lord H. H. Kitchener, Lord Douglas Haig, Sir Edmund Allenby, Bernard Montgomery, Wolfe
Chinese: Sun Tzu, Wu Zixu, Fan Li, Lian Po, Xiang Yu, Li Guang, Cao Cao, Zhuge Liang, Li Shimin, Li Jin, Zhao Kuangyin, Yue Fei, Qi Jiguang, Kangxi, Ling Biao, Peng Dehuai, Chiang Kai-shek
Egyptians: Narmer, Thutmose III, Horemheb, Ramses II, the Great, Ramses III, Sheshonq, Necho, Psammetichus
French: Clovis, Charles Martel, Pepin, Charlemagne (why not?), Roland, Philip II, Charles d'Albret, Constable Richemont, Cardinal Richelieu, Louis XIV, Marquis de Lafayette, Napoleon Bonaparte, Ney, Davout, Murat, Soult, Grouchy, Bernadotte, d'Erlon, Reille, Napoleon III, Ferdinand Foch, Joseph Joffre, Henri Petain, Champlain, Charles de Gaulle
Germans: Arminius (Hermann), Siegfried, Alaric, Theodoric, Lothar, Heinrich I, Otto I, the Great, Frederick Barbarossa?*, Albrecht von Wallenstein, Frederick the Great, Gebhard von Bluecher, Neidhard von Gneisenau, Otto von Bismarck?*, Ferdinand von Zeppelin, Helmut von Moltke, Alexander von Kluck, Alfred von Tirpitz, Alfred von Schlieffen, Paul von Hindenburg, Erich Ludendorff, Wilhelm Keitel, Alfred Jodl, Hans von Friedeburg, Hans-Joergen Stuempff, Karl Doenitz, Karl von Rundstedt, Erwin Rommel, Heinz Guderian, Manstein, Model, Student, Raeder, von Brauchitsch
Greeks: Agamemmnon, Achilles, Ajax, Odysseus, Menelaus, Epaminondas, Themistocles, Cleisthenes, Leonidas, Pericles, Philip, Seleucus, Ptolemy, Antigonus, Antipater, Antiochus, Demetrius, Alexander (not "the Great")
Indians: Porus, Chandragupta Maurya, Ashoka, Babur, Humayun, Akbar, Jahangir, Aurangzeb, Shah Jahan
Iroquois: Tecumseh, Joseph Brant (Thayendanega)
Japanese: Minamoto Yoritomo, Oda Nobunaga, Toyotomi Hideyoshi, Takeda Shingen, Uesugi Kenshin, Mori Motonari, Tojo Hideki, Yamamoto Isoroku
Persians: Achaemenes, Cyrus the Great, Cambyses, Smerdis, Hystaspes, Darius the Great, Xerxes?*, Artabanus, Artaxerxes, Artaphernes, Datis, Mardonius, Arses, Cyaxares, Astyages, Alyattes, Croesus
Romans: Scipio Africanus, Lucius Paullus, Gaius Marius, Lucius Sulla, Pompey, Crassus, Julius Caesar?*, Mark Antony, Augustus Caesar, Tiberius, Germanicus, Claudius, Vespasian, Titus, Otho, Vitellius, Galba, Nerva, Domitian, Trajan, Hadrian, Marcus Aurelius, Aurelian, Diocletian, Constantine, Valentinian, Aetius
Russians: Riurik, Ermak, Oleg, Vladimir the Great, Alexander Nevski, Ivan III, the Great, Ivan IV, the Terrible, Boris Godunov, Dimitri Donskoi, Princess Olga, Peter I, the Great, Kuzma Minin, Dmitry Pozharsky, Bogdan Khmelnitski, Gregori Potemkin, Peter Rumyantsev, Alexander Suvorov, Prince Bagration, Fedor Ushakov, Mikhail Kutuzov, Alexei Ermolov, Pavel Nakhimov, Nicholas I, Vladimir Kornilov, Alexander Samsonov, Alexander Brusilov, Grand Duke Nikolai Nikolaevich Romanov, Nicholas II, Leon Trotsky, Klement Voroshilov, Konstantin Rokossovski, Gregori Zhukov
Zulus: Shaka Zulu?*, Cetewayo, Dingiswayo, Dingane
Once again, please respond with suggestions.
Edit - 12/08/2001 - Aztec leaders from Sabre2th
Edit - 13/08/2001 - Assyrian leaders for Babylon from Alexander01
Edit - 14/08/2001 - Chinese, German and Roman leaders from Transcend
Edit - 14/08/2001 - Russian leaders from redfox74
Edit - 17/08/2001 - Many assorted leaders from diverse sources
Edit - 18/08/2001 - French and Russian leaders from Grumbold
Edit - 18/08/2201 - Babylonian, German and Russian leaders from Alexander01
Last edited by Alexander01 on 19-08-2001 at 04:51
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Alexander01
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Thanks, Sabre2th. I'm not much of an expert on Aztec history. I'll add these to the list. I did have Cuauhtemoc already, though.
And I DO know that Quetzalcoatl, while being the name of a deity, was also a Ninth-Century Toltec priest-leader (Quetzalcoatl Topiltzin, I believe) whose attributes were intermingled with those of the deity to form a legend for latter times.
Last edited by Alexander01 on 13-08-2001 at 08:04
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Mercator
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Sorekara no Nanimo
Jan 1970
time: 06:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Alexander01
For example, should Babylon get Assyrian leaders? |
Yes:
quote:
Because of the historical significance and legendary status achieved by the city of Babylon, the term "Babylonian" is often used as a blanket term to refer to all of the cultures and tribes of the southern Mesopotamian region, including the Sumerians, Akkadians, Amorites, Hittites, Kassites, Assyrians, Arameans, and Chaldeans. |
... As quoted from the http://www.civ3.com "Civ of the Wek" feature.
quote:
Should the "British" also get Scottish leaders? |
Only if those Scottish leaders fought for the English/British Empire, so no "Braveheart".
quote:
Should the Romans get Italian leaders? |
I don´t think so, they´re much too different.
Italian leaders would fit for a separate "Italian" civ, based on the Renaissance Italian city states/Italian Republic (?) united somewhere in the 19th century (?) until present day.
Oh, and please skip the "Caesar" bit from all Roman emperors (except the "real" Caesar (Gaius Julius), but he wasn´t an emperor anyway).
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Transcend
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Boulder, Colorado, USA
Apr 1999
time: 22:15
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Some suggestions for Romans:
Republican Era: Scipio Africanus, Lucius Paullus, Marius, Sulla, Pompeius, Markus Antonius
Imperial Era: Trajan, Aurelian, Dioclectian, Constantine, Valentinian, Aetius
Some suggestions for Germans:
Legendary Beginnings: Arminius, Siegfried, Alarich, Theoderich
Middle Ages: Otto I, Friedrich Barbarossa, Wallenstein
Prussian Era: Friedrich der Grosse, Bluecher, von Moltke, von Hindenburg
Modern Times: Guderian, Manstein, Rommel, Rundstedt, Model
Some suggestions for Chinese:
Pre-Empire: Sun Zi, Wu Zixu, Fan Li, Lian Po
Early Empire: Xiang Yu, Li Guang, Cao Cao, Zhuge Liang
Middle Empire: Li Shimin, Li Jin, Zhao Kuangyin, Yue Fei
Late Empire: Xu Da, Qi Jiguang, Kangxi
Modern Times: Jiang Jieshi, Ling Biao, Peng Dehuai
Last edited by Transcend on 14-08-2001 at 22:39
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redfox74
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Siberia
Aug 2001
time: 06:15
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Russians:
Alexander Nevski, Dmitry Donskoi, Princess Olga (ancient + medieval)
Peter the Great Romanov, Peter Rumyantsev, Grigory Potemkin, Alexander Suvorov, Fedor Ushakov (navy), Mikhail Kutuzov, Alexey Ermolov, Pavel Nakhimov (navy), Vladimir Kornilov (navy) (renaissance)
Kliment Voroshilov, Konstantin Rokossovski, Georgy Zhukov (modern)
There are some more... 
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Juggernaut
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Hint: the flag
Jun 2001
time: 06:15
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quote:
an animated leader that could double as a unique general unit. |
Would be quite weird. All general units gain their status by winning a lot of fights as a regular unit. If they already are the main leader of the civ they can't just be an anonymous unit on the battlefield. Won't happen.
Last edited by Juggernaut on 14-08-2001 at 08:58
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redfox74
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Siberia
Aug 2001
time: 06:15
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About Russian leaders added by Alexander01:
Riurik was rather a viking leader than Russian. He founded a great dynasty, which ruled Russia, but he wasn't Russian.
St. Vladimir the Great (aka Vladimir Red Sun) is a great choice. He was a great ruler, military leader and christened Russia in 988.
Ivan III and Ivan IV are also o.k. (But they were czars, not military leaders.) We could add Ermak, the wellknown leader of cossacks and strelets' (early musketeers), who defeated the Tatar horde in Siberia and founded the first Russian cities there about 1586.
I don't know if Boris Godunov was involved in any important wars.
Nikolai I was a reactionary czar with very hard domestic and foreign policy. He led many wars, but he had his generals. I don't think he was a great military leader himself.
Alexander Samsonov was a general of cavalry, his 2nd army was defeated 1914. It wasn't his fault, sure. But he wasn't a big military leader and isn't wellknown.
There were much more great military leaders in Russia (for example Prince Oleg, who occupied Constantinople or Kuzma Minin and Dmitry Pozharsky, who organized volunteer corps againt Polish and so on....). Do we want them all? 
How about Ukrainians - Bogdan Khmelnitski for example? Ukraine is very close to Russia, in ancient times it was no difference between them - Kievan Rus was their common state.
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Bereta_Eder
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Also I'd recommend as greek leaders
_Constantinos Palaiologos: the last king of Byzantium
_Constantinos Kolokotronis: hero general & fighter of the liberation revolution from the ottoman rule (1821)
_Bouboulina: woman master of naval wars during the same era.
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Alexander01
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Wow. There's been a lot of input since the last update. I'm glad to see everyone's interested.
TechWins - I wouldn't have done these seperately. I had to do the leader polls individually because it wouldn't allow for more than 10 options, and you can only vote for one. This is more of a compilation of names to submit to firaxis, which I plan to do in perhaps two weeks, depending on how much people contribute.
Tingkai - I didn't do a lot of research. I'm a history buff (I'm even majoring in it), so I already knew most of it. I admit, I had to research the Aztecs, Greeks, and Zulus though.
paiktis22 - I can't imagine how I left out Pericles. After Alexander, he was the first one to come to my mind. I guess I forgot to write him down. And I'm not sure whether or not to include the Byzantine leaders under Greeks. They were their own eastern Roman Empire for a long time and just gradually reverted to Greek culture. The Alexander I included is not "the Great" one, it simply refers to all the Ptolemaic, Seleucid and Macedonian leaders by that name. Alexander is the animated diplomatic leader, if you recall.
to all: Thanks very much for the support. By the way, a few of you have complained about certain leaders being included (especially Alexander Samsonov), however, I am including both great and crummy leaders on this list. I view it as a unique leader list, rather than great leader list, and since they'll need lots of names for the leader bank, I say throw them all in. Besides, it might be fun to turn a really awful general into a stellar commander ... or watch him fail miserably!
Also, to settle a few debates, Churchill was a British military leader/tactician in the First World War. He was responsible for the Gallipoli debacle. I'll go with the majority on this one. What do you say, put Churchill in? And to my knowledge, Bismarck did command the German troops at the Battle of Sedan against Napoleon III. But even if he wasn't a master field commander, he was an excellent tactician. He correctly predicted the decisions of each of the governments he tricked - the Danish, Austrians, and French, in the formation of the German empire.
Thanks again, everyone. Keep up the good work, and don't stop the music. Also for thoughts --
Adolf Hitler, unique German military leader - he was a corporal in te First World War! 
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13-08-2001 07:31
Alexander01, have you studied greek history or did you just cut and paste the names? 
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