19-01-2001 06:26									#1
	Zero science challenge Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

The challenge has one simple rule; The science rate must be set to ZERO% at the beginning of the game, and left there. The challenge is to reach AC first. I tried this, and found that at deity, you must really scramble to get science. Tip huts, and trade techs early. After you get to size 5, you can actually research on your own by using einsteins. The problem is getting enough cities to size 5 without monarchy or trade. It took me to 1000 ad to get monarchy, and that was through a hut. I think it can be done, evem at deity. Post here if anybody tries it

	19-01-2001 07:46									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Great Library will be a great assistance as will Marco Polo

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	19-01-2001 08:00									#3
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

sounds like a good challenge. iŽll have to try that.

	19-01-2001 09:25									#4
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Another strategy that would help is to have a whole bunch of caravans and at least one scientist. This allows you to get the science bonus from trade even with 0% science.

	19-01-2001 17:40									#5
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Good idea, especially after reading DaveV's ICS strategy explained by Scouse Gits.
But why make scientists ? Kill them all !
I'm going to try with only the huts and the other civs transformed in slave science researchers. You've got to have neighbors or discover mapmaking through a hut, though. And no, I won't build any improvement (pure ICS) except wonders. Expect a lot of spies and a lot of caravans. (eh wouldn't we get science through foreign trade anyway. This game is too easy !)

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Oh Man, when will you understand that your greatness lies in your failure - Goethe

	19-01-2001 19:07									#7
	Support Apolyton

Julius:
You get no science bonus from caravans unless you have some science production, hence the need for at least one scientist if you wish to pursue this strategy.

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	20-01-2001 03:16									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

You do get science bonus from caravans/freight when you set science to zero.What happens is the bonus doesn't quite fill up the box.You need that scientist to put you over the top.
In occ we often leave 10% science to acheive the same effect after cargo delivery.

For this I reckon a giga map would work best.You'll want as many tech from hut before Invention as possible.Once you got Trade it should be fairly routine.Getting there could prove interesting.

	20-01-2001 06:46									#11
	Inflate your Upload Space

What if you did the old conquer all the ais except one city trick

	20-01-2001 07:26									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I have been working on one game for a bit. At the start, you don't have the techs to build wonders. Without trade, you can't deliver caravans to get science, and unhappiness is a problem if you let your city grow to size five so you can have a scientist. The AI seems to notice that you have no science, and seems to scale back its science also. It should not be too hard to conquer the world, but perhaps it is better to leave some civs around to generate some science to trade and steal. I think that pyramids may be a good deal here. I plan to switch to an excess of scientists until the food box is almost empty, and then fill it up. On my world, a normal sized one, the terrain is not great, compouding the challenge. The real problem may be the 2020 date.