14-08-2001 07:30									#1
	Provinces Support Apolyton

Just something I was thinking of the other day.

It'd be interesting to be able to divide your empire into provinces (or states, or whatever else you want to call them)which would (aside from just being a neat feature) allow you to more easily assign different kinds of automations for the cities within different regions of your empire. or perhaps even add a whole new aspect to the game, like being able to pool resources between the cities of the province and whatnot.... though, there would obviously need to be limitations and maybe a downside on this feature. (I can just imagine people combining all of their cities to build a wonder in 1 turn then make them all seperate againthe next)

	14-08-2001 07:36									#4
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Oh, incase I didn't make it clear... the thing about pooling resources and stuff was just an after thought, the main thing I want is just to be able to divide your country up for the novelty of it, and to be able to more easily automate different regions for different tasks.

	14-08-2001 07:43									#5
	cool idea Got spare money?

I've also given some thought to this. I think it could be done very poorly, but if implimented well, it could be cool for scenario's, as nearly every large country is divided up into parts, and it's been that way forever. Just imagine a ww2 scenario - "The Japanese have troops moving into the Kwantung Province, our city of Shanghai may be put in jeopardy!" Or for the lovers of the European front, "The Allied forces have landed in Normandy, we must send our panzers to push them back onto the beaches!"

Maybe it could just be with certain landmarks or something, like in SMAC.

	14-08-2001 08:02									#6
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I'm sorry, Osweld. But this sounds too similar to EU.

	14-08-2001 08:05									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

How is this anything at all like EU? All I am suggesting is internal borders, merely a dotted line along the map, and not even something that you'd need to use, or see.

	14-08-2001 10:05									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I have to agree with what's been said about it. What would be the purpose of it. You need a purpose to justify the added complexity of it.

	14-08-2001 10:05									#9
	Re: Provinces Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Osweld Just something I was thinking of the other day. It'd be interesting to be able to divide your empire into provinces (or states, or whatever else you want to call them)which would (aside from just being a neat feature) allow you to more easily assign different kinds of automations for the cities within different regions of your empire. or perhaps even add a whole new aspect to the game, like being able to pool resources between the cities of the province and whatnot.... though, there would obviously need to be limitations and maybe a downside on this feature. (I can just imagine people combining all of their cities to build a wonder in 1 turn then make them all seperate againthe next)

That would be kinda cool, but your gonna have to wait until CIV 4.

	14-08-2001 11:45									#10
	Got spare money?

Was discussed to death a long time ago.

I for one am in favor of it. I think states or provinces would be something that should have been included in Civ III and look forward to a TBS game to take advantage of it in the future.

You might wonder what the advantage of provinces would be. Well it is easy - less micromanagement.

A province or state would poll resources, food, and production together and then divide it up among the cities in the province. You would be able to one screen control what as many as 10 to 20 ciities are working on. You could have the province build a granary overnight in one city and meanwhile have it grow your army.

It would also allow cities to have some individuality to them. Cities that produce extra food could stay small and feed the larger cities in the provinces without much trouble. Larger cities in turn would help smaller cities construct things faster. And it would all be done without very much micromanagement at all.

I have always stated my support of provinces and states and the more I think about the idea - the more I like it.

	14-08-2001 18:15									#11
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quote: I for one am in favor of it. I think states or provinces would be something that should have been included in Civ III and look forward to a TBS game to take advantage of it in the future.

I am told that Master of Orion 3 will be doing something similiar, though it would be much much more useful in that game since you have many different leaders and politicians and your empire is always running with some level of automation.

	14-08-2001 18:24									#12
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quote: Originally posted by tniem I for one am in favor of it. I think states or provinces would be something that should have been included in Civ III and look forward to a TBS game to take advantage of it in the future.

Imperialism I and II both use Provinces, in those games cities are just centers of production inside Provinces which may or may not be taken advantage of...

	14-08-2001 18:49									#13
	scale makes for provinces not citys Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

i always paly my civ 2 games as if each city is aprovince not a city. the scale of the map usually means this is more realsitic, if you play european map , you cnat fit all the real citys found in europe on map. in fact you probably would olny have room for each nation such as one city for germany one city for france etc...

Makes no diff to game but just makes it seem more real to me....

	14-08-2001 20:32									#14
	Re: scale makes for provinces not citys Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Rasputin i always paly my civ 2 games as if each city is aprovince not a city. the scale of the map usually means this is more realsitic, if you play european map , you cnat fit all the real citys found in europe on map. in fact you probably would olny have room for each nation such as one city for germany one city for france etc... Makes no diff to game but just makes it seem more real to me....

I did that to, I just would name my city after states.

	15-08-2001 00:49									#15
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i was in favor of a similar system, not bent on geography as much as "class".

in my idea you could give each city a class, invisible to enemies.

so when u found a city, or anythime after that, you can make a class name for it, like "Sci City". and then in a special window you could order / queue up buildings in all the "Sci Cities" you made

would be great if u just go univestity and had 50 cities to click through.

i suppose you could make provinces in the same way... no visible borders, but you could make a "class" named "Eastern US" or something.

could be cool for scenarios

	15-08-2001 11:41									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Henrik Imperialism I and II both use Provinces, in those games cities are just centers of production inside Provinces which may or may not be taken advantage of...

But wasn't the way Imperialism played on the level where all production, trade, and stuff all went to the capital city. That way it didn't really matter how many provinces you had, just the resources and pop that you were controlling in your capital? I may be wrong, but I think that was how it worked.

What is being suggested here is entirely differnet. A civ type city style with a degree of control by grouping some of your cities into provinces. By doing this you would have to do less tweaking in each individual city and instead control a pool of cities from one screen. Each city would then behave what would be best for the enitre province.

	15-08-2001 11:59									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I'm looking forward to finding out how cities do co-operate in Civ3. Civ 2 had the abusable trade unit to allow many cities to work on large projects. With the camel retired back to the desert there needs to be an alternative mechanism that is not abusable in the same way.

	15-08-2001 14:27									#18
	Re: scale makes for provinces not citys Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Rasputin i always paly my civ 2 games as if each city is aprovince not a city. the scale of the map usually means this is more realsitic, if you play european map , you cnat fit all the real citys found in europe on map. in fact you probably would olny have room for each nation such as one city for germany one city for france etc... Makes no diff to game but just makes it seem more real to me....

Yeah I thought that way too.

Still, you could devise a not-too-intrusive concept of states or colonies (comprising several civ-cities), perhaps only under certain forms of government. It might add some spice, but it's more a 'dress-up' kind of thing than a real game fundamental.

	15-08-2001 21:02									#19
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Sounds good to me Osweld, here's to hoping that someone makes a mod along these lines.

	16-08-2001 08:02									#20
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There must be some unique functions to "provinces" if the concept is to be implemented. For example, if we make the unit of production the province instead of cities, it then makes sense. Another reason might be this. Some hexes in a province are populated and this fact is indicated by "village" markers. The production of these villages go to the province. Then it would make sense to have these administrative regions. However that would entail radical changes to the existing production model which you probably won't see until at least the next sequel.

	16-08-2001 08:14									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger There must be some unique functions to "provinces" if the concept is to be implemented. For example, if we make the unit of production the province instead of cities, it then makes sense. Another reason might be this. Some hexes in a province are populated and this fact is indicated by "village" markers. The production of these villages go to the province. Then it would make sense to have these administrative regions. However that would entail radical changes to the existing production model which you probably won't see until at least the next sequel.

No no no!! I don't want to make such drastic changes to the game, all I am asking for is a very minor thing, that wouldn't require changing any of the fundementals of the game.

I don't see why you think it has to be some major game altering feature to be implemented. I mean, we aren't still using civ1 graphics, are we? and heck, they even spent a considerable amount of work solely on the leader animations.

	18-08-2001 11:33									#22
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Though without such major changes there's hardly any point in adding another level of administrative regions.

Automations can be handled better with a well designed city screen and the use of master queues.

	18-08-2001 18:51									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I like the idea of provinces, because I always thought it would be nice to have local administrators or provincial governors to assign there, whereas you'd have to choose from a pool of people to place there --some incompetent, some talented. I think it would have added a really nice dynamic to the game. After all, domestic politics make up such a huge portion of any empire managing.

	18-08-2001 20:20									#24
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: I like the idea of provinces, because I always thought it would be nice to have local administrators or provincial governors to assign there, whereas you'd have to choose from a pool of people to place there --some incompetent, some talented. I think it would have added a really nice dynamic to the game. After all, domestic politics make up such a huge portion of any empire managing.

That's how it will work in Master of Orion 3, Jason.

You should take a look at it. Provided that it turns out well, MOO3 is looking like it will be the next step in strategy games. They are trying alot of new things with it, and are going to bring the genre to a new level.... if it turns out well .

quote: Though without such major changes there's hardly any point in adding another level of administrative regions. Automations can be handled better with a well designed city screen and the use of master queues.

Yes, and what I am asking for is an ability to manage an entire region of cities in the same fashion you'd manage a single city, it'd make empires with 50+ cities much more manageable.

at the very least, I hope they have a manageable and easy to use city advisor screen, which will allow you to start construction and whatnot with out going to the city.