25-01-2001 10:18									#1
	2x2x-deity single player experiences Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

i tried it once some time ago but i got the feeling the AI really sucks at this settings. i played the egypts (or the babs, i canīt remember) on the standard med-world-map. actually my intention was to get a feeling about mid- and late-game-behavior on 2x2x, but i didnīt even finish bachs because at about 100bc the game was over. all conquered, no AI left even with the restart-civ-option on. did anyone else tried this out? is the AI so bad at 2x2x even on deity?

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	24-01-2001 23:17									#2
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2x anything magnifies the AI's weaknesses:

- doesn't know how to sleaze
- builds cities in dumb places
- irrigates WAY too much
- prioritizes high-food squares at the expense of shields and arrows
- doesn't go after huts
[This message has been edited by DaveV (edited January 24, 2001).]

	24-01-2001 23:48									#3
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At the risk of being chased through the Apolyton marketplace dressed in a fishing net and with my right leg stapled to a donkey's harness,

"What does 2x2x-deity" mean?

	26-01-2001 18:18									#7
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How do you start a 2x2x game? I've seen mention of it here, but I've never seen the option in my game setup.

Does it have to be double production and double movement, or can you mix and match?

	26-01-2001 18:32									#8
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SlowThinker - in 2x production, roads and irrigation are of relatively less value. Trade specials are extremely valuable. In 2x movement, hut-tipping will greatly expand your civ while the AIs remain relatively static. Then you can kill them with all of your hut-generated units. And I think you misunderstand 2x: 2x production means every square produces double what it does in a normal game (e.g. forest produces 2 food and 4 shields). +1 bonuses are still only plus 1, though (irrigation, roads, building city on non-shield grass), so terrain improvement is relatively less productive. You still manage your cities every turn. 2x movement means every unit has double its normal movement, so horses move 4 instead of 2. As you said, this greatly aids the attacker (especially when you can build 2-move catapults).

Campo - you need MGE to play 2x. If you have TCP/IP installed in your windows, just start an internet game with the number of player you want (you plus the desired number of AIs). Then click on "start game", pick your civ, and you're off. If you can't start an internet game, you can play hotseat. In both cases, there's an option menu where you can specify 2x production and/or 2x movement.

	26-01-2001 19:10									#9
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you can fix some things in the rules.txt. for example you can set Minimum govt level necessary for computer player to want to perform irrigate/mine at 0 for all terrain types. however it doesnīt help that much too. I still even donīt notice that thereīs an AI on board
Iīve played some 2x2x single games though. but when I play them I set challenges like having unbelievable amount of cities in 2000BC (I remember having 47 in one king game but thatīs definetly beatable) or revealing/conquering the map earliest possible. I think thatīs a pretty entertaining way of playing.

	26-01-2001 19:14									#10
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oh and Campo, you can also change the rules.txt that way you can play 2x2x settings with v2.42. simply change the corresponding values at terrains and units.

	27-01-2001 10:48									#11
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DaveV and Odeo,

Thanks for the info. I have both 2.42 (which I usually play) and MGE.

I'm interested in 2x in the hope of speeding up the game. I really enjoy Civ2 but don't have much time to play. But if the AI is hampered further by the doubles then that wouldn't be a good solution. I'll give it a try though.

	27-01-2001 12:18									#13
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SlowThinker, itīs not only that 2x production grows twice as fast and produces twices as fast. these settings are much more effective for other reasons.
one example: a city founded on a forest square surrounded by nothing but water and forest has no chance to survive on 1x1x settings. on 2x production, however, this city will become very effective. when you have republik or democracy you even can grow this city to 20 using all forest and water squares in the city radius. HG and 30% luxury is usually enough. finally you will have built a monster city.
remember, this part of the map would stay empty in 1x games. or the terrain has to be transformed and irrigated before. you will probably need a whole game to grow this city to size 20 and in the end you will have at best a mediocre city.
[This message has been edited by oedo (edited January 27, 2001).]

	27-01-2001 15:52									#14
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I think I undestand. I have to add to "COMPARISON"
5. Food support is demanded every second turn only.

Food surplus is very large. This changes things very much.