22-01-2001 03:11									#1
	CIV 1 is more just. Full PM-box? Change here!

I've had it.

Democracies that come banging on your head like they are Suleiman the Magnificent and refuse to talk to you even though THEY HAVE too.

AI that keeps demanding to get out of their territory (which they tend to forget that it's also yours - overlapping)

Crappy phalanx that bribe your dragoons.

Russians that sneak attack you and then continue to be are the favorite childs of the rest of the world and the list goes on.

I'm not talking about the «hidden AI cheats» like production speed up, knowledge of your city status etc.

I am talking about the godamn BLATANT cheats that are IN YOUR FACE in CIV 2.

Sure, I hated when they fortified next to my cities in CIV 1 but CIV 1 didn't have any reputation so I could just kick the lights out of them and still be welcomed in the AI's palace.

I am seriously contamplating to try and return to CIV 1. Has anyone tried it? And has anyone actually managed it?

	22-01-2001 05:02									#2
	Support Apolyton

I looked at it about two months ago, but couldn't bring myself to play it. Still like the music though.

	22-01-2001 05:06									#3
	Inflate your Upload Space

Paiktis, what's your primary concern about civ2? (I know, the ai cheats, but what specific cheat bugs you more than a phalanx blowing up a battleship?)

	22-01-2001 18:53									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Also, there were definitely a ton of blatant ai cheats in civ 1 also. I have played in several years but some of the ones that immediately come to mind include...

...ai could initiate diplo talks with any unit next to any of your units, you had to take a diplo to one of their cities, hoping he didn't get killed along the way. Of course there wasn't much need for diplo talks with the ai then.

...ai received instant wonders, they never built them in a city the way you had to (there was some random factor to this)

...the ai recieved instant trade routes when they wanted, it NEVER built a caravan unit (is this still the case, I didn't think so but now that I think about it I don't recall seeing very many ai caravan/freight units running around)

...ai triremes were NEVER lost at see. When first beginning to play, you might see one pass by one of your cities and think its civ was close by only to find out they were across the biggest ocean you've ever seen. (also, is this still the case? I've never checked it but just kind of assumed this one to be true)

That's all I can think of now. If you want more let me know. I have a civ 1 stratagy book at home that lists a bunch more of these. I can look some up for you if you really care.

	23-01-2001 05:02									#9
	Tired of ads?

Paiktis -

You have to realize AI is very very hard to program. People, even with the cheats, go to OCC for a challenge.

I don't think the game really breaks the rules too much. Sure, it doesn't go into anarchy in demo, it can bribe with any unit, but that doesn't take away from a good experiance anyway. Better that then having a handicapped stupid AI fighting you.

	23-01-2001 07:55									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Phalanxes SHOULD have a chance to kill battleships. The current FP/HP system gives way too much advantage to modern units. (acceptible for historical reasons but makes warfare too easy for humans who race ahead in science.

	23-01-2001 11:27									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

How a battleship is (nearly) beaten by a phalanx:
"Sir, I've got a bunch of idiots in costumes bashing on are ships with swords). What do we do?"
"Ignore them. they'll get sober eventually."
2 hours later
"Sir we've sprunk a leak!"
"How big! Who did this?!"
"Those guys in costume"
"Minimum combat alert! get the cleaners"
"they're her sir"
"I want you guys to get these idiot out of our way. Understood?"
"Yes sir!"
at the scene of the attack, the cleaners, holding their brooms, are attacking the enemy
"Get out of here you drunks! Go on shoo!"
one of the brooms hit their target and the phalanx runs into their boats in terror. The cleaners, using their brooms, destroy the masts of the enemy ships in minutes.

	24-01-2001 03:45									#14
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

LOL, Zeevico

My point exactly.

	30-01-2001 20:53									#15
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Paiktis22, I haven't seen any real advantage in maintaining a good or better reputation in Civ II. The whole diplomacy thing still feels like an "add-on" someone played with late in the design period. I have valiantly put up with a ton of nonsense to keep my reputation clean, only to be told in the late game that the AI thinks I'll knife them in the back, etc. While this may look distinctly like real life in terms of the experience of the U.S., it doesn't seem to have any intrinsic fairness to it.

	31-01-2001 10:51									#16
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Peace is easier to achieve at least in the early centuries.

But the point is that the game will not follow some of its own rules so you have to break them.

It's not a situation that threatens the existance of western civilization but still it's irritating