15-08-2001 22:57									#1
	So whats the deal gonna be with barbarians? Put an end to popups!

Anyone know how its gonna work? Same? Any diplomacy w/ barbarian? Barbarian leaders? Barbarians take over city = new civ? Anyone?

	15-08-2001 23:03									#2
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Nothing is known for certain.

	15-08-2001 23:04									#3
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I think it has been said that Barbarians will have cities formed outside your boarders, and if a city is destroyed they will form a new one. They also seam to have replaced the goodie huts, as you get stuff from destroying them.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

	16-08-2001 00:07									#4
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Gramphos you are primarily correct but you do have a few small errors. Barbarians will have encampments (1 pop size city) that will lay outside your borders. When your borders expand onto the encampment or near the encampment the encampment will then be pushed out further away from your borders. Eventually with a major spread of culture you could push out barbarians out of your surrounding area completely. I have no recollection of hearing that goodie huts will not be included. Here is a quote out of the civ abilities chart, "Better stuff from barbarian villages". This could either mean the goodie huts or the encampments.

	16-08-2001 00:09									#5
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Tech: they form out of your view (fog of war), which was meant to make you constantly explore the barren terrain you didnt bother colonizing.

	16-08-2001 00:10									#6
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oh, and in the civ3 trailer / teaser from E3, a warrior walks onto what looks to be a hut, and a barbarian warrior comes out.

	16-08-2001 00:27									#7
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quote: Tech: they form out of your view (fog of war),

Yes that is true but they still don't form in your borders regardless of whether or not your borders are in your view.

	16-08-2001 00:32									#8
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i thought your borders would always be in your view

	16-08-2001 00:42									#9
	I don't think so... Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Ever see the resource slideshow? Well I think it showed that a city has its normal line of sight and borders don't effect it. I'm not sure, but I think it did.

	16-08-2001 00:55									#10
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argh. patrolling my own borders.

	16-08-2001 03:01									#11
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Hopefully there will be some form of terrain advancement that simulates the sensors in SMAC. I don't want to be stuck moving unit around all the time just to keep the Fog of War off spawning sites.

Here's a bonus though, particularly for expansionistic civs. If you have empty space that you can't build cities into or just don't want to be bothered with, just keep moving a unit back and forth in and out of a barbarian encampment Fog of War range to respawn goodie huts. Sort of like worm farming in SMAC where you have units purposely running through fungus to provoke the natives and earn extra case.

Suddenly Greenland becomes valuable for barbarian hunting

	16-08-2001 03:48									#12
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lol Comrade KruX of the Roman Polythesist Barbarian Hunters.

don't understand the polythiest part??? check my threads for that religion post.

	16-08-2001 06:30									#13
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TechWins, you say that barbarians will be "pushed out" does that mean that your vision will expand as your culture does? Ie people are coming in from all over the countryside.... you here rumors, maybe your city radius could expand/contract with culture... just some thoughts

	16-08-2001 07:43									#14
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No, don't think so. You can always build more cities to expand your vision, though. I also don't think there will be a sensor sort of terrain improvement, so now there's a real use for the 'p' command

	16-08-2001 09:52									#15
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Why can't fortresses have a 1 square site radius, even when not occupied by troops? In Hadrian's wall, the romans had mini-fortresses spread out along the entire length with a few troops, mainly there as runners to the main forts behind the walls if barbarians approached. I'm not looking for the SMAC 2square radius, but 1 square even when unoccupied seems very reaosnable to me.

Side question, has any of the screenshots shown a fortress yet? I haven't seen any, but was wondering if I missed something.

	16-08-2001 10:50									#16
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Serapis,
I think they are holding off some choice info (like all the blank spots in the tech tree screens)...

I mean they woudn't want to release all of the info on the game before release...tho we all wish it were otherwise.

	16-08-2001 11:13									#17
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good question on what's the deal with the barbarians...

WE've seen screenshots of the roman cities, and the romans seem to have the "red" colour. So what colour are bararians now?

	16-08-2001 16:25									#18
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At least the semi-civ status of the New Barbarians will do away with the annoying build-a-new-city-and-be-greeted-with-random-barbarians thing in Civ2.

I'm hoping the barbarians will become less of a random factor, and more of an erratic, but fightable threat.

I never saw the joy in 'random' events. It's pretty much unchallenging and frustrating to be struck with bad luck out of the blue. Unpredictability is important in a game, but not if implemented by means of random disaster.

	17-08-2001 00:48									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Zanzin good question on what's the deal with the barbarians... WE've seen screenshots of the roman cities, and the romans seem to have the "red" colour. So what colour are bararians now?

actually, the human player seems to be always red in the shots.

check www.civ3.com , the babylonians are also red.

	17-08-2001 01:56									#20
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Could it be that Civs that didnt make it to the "final 16" will turn up as bully-Barbarians? I mean:

Vikings for harassing the French
Celts for tormenting the English
Mongols for injecting annoyance to Chinese and Russians
etc....

Like a specific or a few specific Barbarian-Civs to be a pain-in-the-a** for each ordinary Civ. Give me some thoughts!

	17-08-2001 02:11									#21
	Put an end to popups!

no, they wouldn't do that, it's insulting to other nations.

im sure people of Celtic or Viking Descent dont want to be known just for being bullys.

	17-08-2001 02:23									#22
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quote: Originally posted by UberKruX actually, the human player seems to be always red in the shots. check www.civ3.com , the babylonians are also red.

NOOO! After playing the CTP series where the human was always blue, this is the last thing I need. I want to be different colors every time, not the same.

quote: Originally posted by Grim Legacy At least the semi-civ status of the New Barbarians will do away with the annoying build-a-new-city-and-be-greeted-with-random-barbarians thing in Civ2.

Yeah, I hated when that happened.

	17-08-2001 06:19									#23
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hey, in the resource tutorial, as your borders expand you see whats in them.

what difinitive proof?

you see more sea squares at the end of the tutorial.

and i dont see any fog.

	17-08-2001 06:46									#24
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(Yes I am ByzCat)

I never said it was "difinitive proof". I said it was what I though I saw. And I also said I might be wrong. I saw the tutorial in May, I believe.

	17-08-2001 16:09									#25
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quote: Originally posted by UberKruX no, they wouldn't do that, it's insulting to other nations. im sure people of Celtic or Viking Descent dont want to be known just for being bullys.

The hypothetical Barbarian status of those civs might be an explicit insult, but the current ommission of them is no less than an implicit insult.

	17-08-2001 22:46									#26
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quote: Originally posted by UberKruX no, they wouldn't do that, it's insulting to other nations. im sure people of Celtic or Viking Descent dont want to be known just for being bullys.

Well, I am of Viking descent and I much rather see them included as Barbarians than not included at all.

	18-08-2001 05:48									#27
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Some Celts weren't bullies, I distinctly remember having my hut burnt to the ground by vicious Viking raiders.
Hum Maybe that would be an idea, To have units be able to raid your colonies and get some of he resources.