16-08-2001 01:51									#1
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I think it will be fun if you can argue with your enemy and ask for city and money from them when they want to cease fire with you.

	16-08-2001 07:34									#2
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I would believe you will be able to. The screen shots of diplomacy seem to show tons of options and trade issues. It seems that agreements will be included in the things that will be traded. So you can trade your participation in an alliance based on a certain amount of gold a turn.

	16-08-2001 12:55									#3
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Do you think they (the AI) will do it the easy way or the hard way?

The hard way: Just take all there cities and destroy them.

The easy way: Ask them to give you all there cities in exchange for an alliance (, and that there citizens are spared).

"You give me that strategic island, and I'll spare you some units and offer you my protection for your other cities until I've spanked the other civs."

How far do you think one can push the AIs?

	16-08-2001 16:35									#4
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Or maybe it will be like there are tons of things you can ask the AI, but the answer to all you're questions are:

NO!



Or maybe it will be like in ctp2. I had a lot of times that I asked for tech form an AI civ. In return I would give them some tech of mine. They refused. But when I just asked for that same tech, they countered with the request for that tech that I just offered and then accepted...

For example:

I give tech1 and ask for tech2: They refuse.

I ask for tech2: They respond with the request for tech1. Then it's OK....

I hope it will be better than that!

	16-08-2001 16:47									#5
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quote: Originally posted by campmajor! Or maybe it will be like there are tons of things you can ask the AI, but the answer to all you're questions are: NO!

Boy that sounds familiar! And after asking three different things and receiving NO, the AI player is 'irritated' with your questions and leaves, unwilling to speak to you for another hundred years!

	16-08-2001 18:22									#6
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I think you should be able to ask for a city and money for a cease fire but would the AI accept it? I don't know, but I think maybe each leader should have their own unique diplomacy personalities where a leader like Stalin probably wouldn't accept the offer and a leader like Ghadi would, I think that would make the gameplay more interesting and if you could customize your own civs and leaders, you can really make some cool civs by have unique diplomacy personalites.

	16-08-2001 18:56									#7
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Well it will be good if there is some kind of bartering that takes place as well (which I would expect under this 'bargaining table' system), ie, you make an offer, the AI counterproposes and you either reach an agreement or nothing at all...that is the way diplomacy should be done...

	16-08-2001 20:31									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Grim Legacy Boy that sounds familiar! And after asking three different things and receiving NO, the AI player is 'irritated' with your questions and leaves, unwilling to speak to you for another hundred years!

And they have other matters more important to attend to!


Yes, I think each civ (leader) should have different personality and therefore react different on your proposals.

I can only hope that this will work out fine.

	17-08-2001 00:09									#9
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quote: Originally posted by campmajor! Or maybe it will be like there are tons of things you can ask the AI, but the answer to all you're questions are: NO!

I hope they have enough intelligent to agree with me offering them protection if they give me one of their cities and 10 gold per turn. (I like playing godfather)

	17-08-2001 00:40									#10
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That sounds like an offer they can't refuse.

*Ducks incoming rotten fruit*

Seriously, though, I've had similar trade problems, campmajor!. In Civ2 I call up a civ and ask for a tech. They say no. Two turns later they call up and ask for the same tech and offer to trade it for another, better tech. Well, ok! Of course if they want you to pay money for a tech and the sentence ends with "..." you know they want you to declare war against their enemy. If you refuse you don't even get the money back!

easy, I doubt that the AI will be able to effectively argue with you. You'll probably get something like this:

AI: If you give me Rome and 30 gold per turn I'll cease hostilities at once.
Me: How about Veii and 20 gold?
AI: No, Rome and 30 gold.
Me: How about Veii and 25 gold?
AI: You have swindled me for the LAST TIME! Prepare for war!

	17-08-2001 00:54									#11
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CtG - spot on. Who knows, though - maybe Firaxis will come up with something half-decent on the diplomatic side of things. From what I've heard though (which, admittedly, isn't a lot) that will be the sort of thing that'll come out.

What you have to remember is that it's very difficult to program an AI in these things. You either have to shorten communication considerably to stop the AI accepting ridiculous terms (which didn't always work - trading bases in SMAC being one such example) or draw very definite lines on how flexible the AI is prepared to be. I suppose Firaxis previously chose the former option because it seemed more authentic - it'd be nice to see a breath of fresh air in that department, though.

	17-08-2001 01:34									#12
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City plus money may confuse AI, so I think you may only request one, city or money at a time. I didn't plan to let it pay every turn, I was planned to let it pay all the money at once. But a certain amount for every turn sounds better I think.
When AI wants to cease fire with me, I should get a window and I've choices:
1. Accept.
2. Decline.
3. Ask for a city.
4. Ask for money.
When I ask for a city, AI should be able to know which city is better(depends on population, production, wonders etc). So when I ask for Boston, it may say how about Dover, or it will refuse it at all, but in both cases, you will see above menu again. I hope AI can be smart enough when it refused Boston last time, it won't be kind enough to offer me New York this turn. I think this should be doable in program. Another point is, you can't ask a civil to offer its capital.
Some money every turn is good, AI may choose to stop offer you money later and you will be asked if you want to start a war with it.
If you are asking for city or money from AI, of course there is chance the talk will break and the war will continue. If you also want to end the war, then you should accept it without asking for anything.

	17-08-2001 03:42									#13
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Easy, I am pretty sure you'll be able to ask for money and a city at the same time for a cease fire. Go look at the screenshots of the diplomacy windows, I am pretty sure you can ask anything for anything.

	17-08-2001 04:20									#14
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Well by the look of the negotiation system easy, I would expect you will be able to bargain back and forth to get a ceasefire. Perhaps after a good beating it is time for a nation to go down on it's hands and knees and offer something for a service. Conversely if you are not satisfied, you could demand a complete capitulation (eg, the SMAC concept of surrender) and see if they agree, if desperate enough for survival. It is all about negotiating, getting a deal. But when one side has a vastly overwhelming hand, how can you get off the handle. Perhaps only total capitulation will satisfy him, even if at all. Perhaps he wants an end to the war and will bluff you to begin with, but will accept. It is the fun of negotiating and diplomacy like this. I can see the vast potential of this system...my recent thread mentions this.

	17-08-2001 04:32									#15
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The basic idea is that everything and anything is open to negotiation and trade. You can demand a ceasefire and then demand whatever you pick off the list; techs, money, cities, units, resources, etc...

	17-08-2001 05:06									#16
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Cease fires are for IMO. It's against my civing principles. If let's say the Zulus would attack my peaceful Frenchmen, I would have no choice but genociding them. No compromising with the enemy, no negotiating with villains.

quote: I hope they have enough intelligent to agree with me offering them protection if they give me one of their cities and 10 gold per turn. (I like playing godfather)

That's a great idea. Hihi. After I've buried the Zulus I'd ask my puny Babylonian neighbours if they'd be willing to pay me for protecting them (from me). It's kind of like the "we demand tribute for our patience"-thing though.

	17-08-2001 06:14									#17
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actually Harrison, it appears that Units are not tradeable.

at least i haven't seen it in the diplomacy images

	17-08-2001 16:25									#18
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quote: Originally posted by UberKruX actually Harrison, it appears that Units are not tradeable. at least i haven't seen it in the diplomacy images

Hm I don't think I'll miss that very much. Trading military units is unrealistic. If you want to have some concept of mercenaries, it should not be dealt with in this way. You might send a unit to help out, but always keep control.

	17-08-2001 22:23									#19
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>Hm I don't think I'll miss that very much. Trading military units is unrealistic. If you want to have some concept of mercenaries, it should not be dealt with in this way. You might send a unit to help out, but always keep control.

Unrealistic for say America to sell F-14 fighters to Germany? I disagree. You should be able sell units.

	17-08-2001 22:55									#20
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Yes, but trading a Legion seems unreasonable. What would the dividing line be? And would there still be that backward engineering of Tech effect in Civ3- if you gave the Chinese a spy plane, for example... would they learn anything from the technology in it?

	18-08-2001 00:34									#21
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What about Isreal's Airforce? Part of it is American made planes.

also, Soviet Union "help" in NAM, "dontating" tanks to the Veit.