18-08-2001 05:55									#31
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why are the celts in germany? good question. i looked it up. here is what i found:

quote: Many academics believe that the ancestors of the Celts were the Proto-Indo European culture who lived near the Black Sea circa 4000 BCE. Some migrated in a South-Westerly direction to create the cultures of Thrace and Greece; others moved North-West to form the Baltic, Celtic, Germanic and Slavic cultures. Evidence of a Proto-Celtic Unetice or Urnfield culture has been found in what is now Slovakia circa 1000 BCE. This evolved into a group of loosely linked tribes which formed the Celtic culture circa 800 BCE. By 450 BCE they had expanded into Spain; by 400 BCE they were in Northern Italy, and by 270 BCE, they had migrated into Galatia (central Turkey). By 200 BCE, they had occupied the British Isles, Brittany, much of modern France, Netherlands, Belgium, Germany and Switzerland, North West Spain, and their isolated Galatia settlement in Turkey. Although the Celts had a written language, it was rarely used. Their religious and philosophical beliefs were preserved in an oral tradition. Little of their early history remains. Most of our information comes from Greek and Roman writers, who may well have been heavily biased (the Celts invaded Rome in 390 BCE and Greece in 279 BCE). Other data comes from the codification (and modification) of Celtic myth cycles by Christian monks. The latter included the Ulster Cycle, the Fenian Cycle, the Cycle of Kings, the Invasion Races Cycle from Ireland, and The Mabinogion from Wales. Unfortunately, much Celtic history and religion has been lost or distorted by an overlay of Christianity.

	18-08-2001 05:55									#32
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There supposed to be in Switzerland/austria, but I think mainly it was a mixture of celts and small local lords in Germany so no big civ there anyway.

	18-08-2001 05:59									#33
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Cool !! We kicked Ass!
I just did the pic out of my mind and from what I could remember (useless history book) they were in austria and kinda spread through North europe and found there way to Ireland wales and scotland.

	18-08-2001 08:03									#34
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Nobody seems to have mentioned this yet, but there will likely be different map sizes for the earth, and deffinately for random maps.

Even if there aren't any included you can be sure someone will make world maps in other sizes.

	18-08-2001 08:40									#35
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DarkKnight,

After reading the debate over how many countries there are in Europe, your post caught me by surprise and had me laughing so hard I dropped my keyboard. Very Funny!

Splangy, I checked out that link (Jeff's interview) and he DOES say you can edit in 16 civs in a game. This would be SO COOL!
But it also says that most screens will still only show stats for 8. This sounds very vague and leads me to believe that more than 8 will be buggy (For instance, Diplomacy-- will I be able to talk to Civs 9 thru 16 if they don't show on the Dipl screen?)

Well, I'm hoping it will work out.

	18-08-2001 12:04									#36
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Just one quick question.

What's the special unit for the "Ye Ole Apolyton Guys?"

	18-08-2001 14:46									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Falconius DarkKnight, After reading the debate over how many countries there are in Europe, your post caught me by surprise and had me laughing so hard I dropped my keyboard. Very Funny! Splangy, I checked out that link (Jeff's interview) and he DOES say you can edit in 16 civs in a game. This would be SO COOL! But it also says that most screens will still only show stats for 8. This sounds very vague and leads me to believe that more than 8 will be buggy (For instance, Diplomacy-- will I be able to talk to Civs 9 thru 16 if they don't show on the Dipl screen?) Well, I'm hoping it will work out.

well i they stated it in a interveiw it shouldn't be that buggy, but im sure it will be a little odd .

6x world map was mentioned awhile back by dan, dont ask me to find the thread, finding that interveiw was really hard so you can look for yourself, but its there

	18-08-2001 16:39									#38
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quote: 6x world map was mentioned awhile back by dan, dont ask me to find the thread, finding that interveiw was really hard so you can look for yourself, but its there

Ah... it's not really that difficult, all you have to do is go through the news items. You can find most of dan's quotes in the news items as well.

	18-08-2001 20:53									#39
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quote: Originally posted by M. le Comte When will these nasty developpers have the idea to raise the number of civs present at the same time on the map ? I know that goes against the meaning of "civilization", because a civilization is always composed by more that one state. But we don't care that concept ! After all, since civilization I, there are a german, a spanish and a french civ, whereas in the reality, they belong to the same civilization, altough they are independant states ! So why don't developpers take the 200 countries that exist, or the thousands of "nationalities" that compose these 200 countries, and put them all in Civilization ? At the begining of each game, an option would allow the player to choose between playing again one to 200 civilizations. The "200 mode", on a large map, would be almost impossible to win by war, but what an exciting experience to meet more than two or three civs in Europes, whereas kings and republics through History had to deal with at least fifteen opponents at the same time ? nowadays, since sovietic union has disappeared, more than thirty countries share the European continent. They are peaceful, but they used to be warmongers. It would be much more amazing than spending centuries to find an opponent.

sounds cool but that would take long!

	18-08-2001 22:05									#40
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ahahaha! POLAND IS STILL INDEPENDENT ON THAT MAP.



must be one of those fluke occurance that hppened in between wars.



props to my fellow polskas

	18-08-2001 23:20									#41
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quote: Originally posted by UberKruX ... ahahaha! ... ... props to my fellow polskas ...

BIG THX Uber for supporting us, polskas...

I always thought, that we were Slovans. But it's really inspiring to find people, who think we are mostly Barbarians, Mongols and Celts.

Grrreat fun, great fun indeed...

	18-08-2001 23:41									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Scrooge BIG THX Uber for supporting us, polskas... I always thought, that we were Slovans. But it's really inspiring to find people, who think we are mostly Barbarians, Mongols and Celts. Grrreat fun, great fun indeed...

Great, I though we were not in Civ2 and it shows we had 2 distinct civilizations!

	19-08-2001 04:26									#43
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Dear Al'Kimiya


There are Celts in Germany because the Celts, about 2100-1500 years ago, ranged across all Europe (thought the Roman Empire decreased their holdings).

They were present from Scotland to Turkey, to north Africa.
These people still exist in the form of our British Welsh, Scots, Irish, Cornish, Manx, and the Fench Bretons. It was the Teutons (now called Germans) that pushed the Celts out of their native lands. The word 'Welsh' is Anglo-Saxon for 'foreigner'.

Hope this clears it up for you,


Tod.MB

	19-08-2001 06:56									#44
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quote: Originally posted by CIA_Operative Albania, Andorra, Armenia, Austria, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Belgium, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, Czech Rep, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Georgia, Germany, Greece, Holy See, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Kazakhstan, Kyrgystan, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Macedonia, Malta, Monaco, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Moldova, Romania, Russian Fed, San Marino, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Tajikistan, Turkey, Turkmenistan, Ukraine, United Kingdom of Great Britain and Nothern Ireland, Uzbekistan, Yugoslavia

There are 52. Source Pictorial Atlas of the World pub. by Ottenheimer.

1. Albania
2. Andorra
3. Austria
4. Belgium
5. Bosnia-Herzegovina
6. Bulgaria
7. Croatia
8. Cyprus
9. Czech Rep.
10. Denmark
11. Estonia
12. Finland
13. France
14. Georgia
15. Germany
16. Greece
17. Hungary
18. Iceland
19. Ireland
20. Italy
21. Latvia
22. Liechtenstein
23. Lithuania
24. Luxembourg
25. Macedonia
26. Malta
27. Monaco
28. Netherlands
29. Norway
30. Poland
31. Portugal
32. Romania
33. San Marino
34. Slovakia
35. Slovenia
36. Spain
37. Sweden
38. Switzerland
39. Armenia
40. Azerbaijan
41. Belarus
42. Kazakhstan
43. Kyrgyzstan-South border is Europe Asia border
44. Moldova
45. Russia-To Ural Mountain
46. Tajikistan-South border is Europe Asia border
47. Turkmenistan-South border is Europe Asia border
48. Ukraine
49. Uzbekistan-South border is Europe Asia border
50. United Kingdom-If Scotland leaves than there will be 53
51. Vatican
52. Yogoslavia-If Montenegro leaves there could be 54
Note: There is Kaliningrad, formal Prussia, will they remain part of Russia or go their own way.

	19-08-2001 07:14									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Timeline So where did this info about an Earth map 6X larger come from?? Is it a sure thing or just a rumor?

Dan "the man" Magaha confirmed that the maximum size of map possible in the world editor was currently 6X larger than the biggest map possible in Civ 2. The standard map sizes selectable inside the game would almost certainly not be making use of this maximum size though, so it is for mods only. A mega world map seems like the most likely thing people will make use of it for.

	19-08-2001 07:20									#46
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quote: Originally posted by CIA_Operative From what the UN tells me Turkey So far only 51 add any you think are missing

You left out Slovakia and Slovenia, plus Turkey is not part of Europe. Boy will "Roman" be upset when he returns to our boards in Sept. and find out you miss his country Slovakia. Maybe no one will tell him.
On the Turkey thing. The part of Turkey that is located in Europe is to small to be consider part of Europe.

	19-08-2001 07:27									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Ribannah I count 49, maybe I still overlooked a couple Turkey(49)

Turkey is not Europe.
You missed Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan.

	19-08-2001 09:02									#48
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There were some concerns about Japan getting the entire Pacific to itself unless India steps in... I may be wrong, but wouldn't China be in the way as well?

	21-08-2001 08:30									#49
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quote: Originally posted by shum00 There were some concerns about Japan getting the entire Pacific to itself unless India steps in... I may be wrong, but wouldn't China be in the way as well?

In Civ 2, on a world map, I cannot remember a game that included China and India going to sea and establishing a city SouthEast of the mainland. It seem the AI almost always stayed in Asia, Middle East or sometime they would sail to the America's and start a city there.
For what ever reason unless you the player said randon starting places, no AI civ would start in Australia, New Zealand, or Indonesia unless it was a replacement civ for one that was destroyed.
In fact can anyone remember an AI China building a city in Siberia
(Sibirshoye)?

	21-08-2001 08:45									#50
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Turkey is in Europe man don't you know that they are applying to the EU right now and yes i originally forgot Slovenia and Slovakia but then placed them in, in the next post so I really didn't forget.

	21-08-2001 16:21									#51
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I see little need for such a large map when the maximum number of players is still so limited.

I thought the biggest Civ2 custom maps were already huge. Guess I'll have to wait and see whether the '6x' does anything for me. :/

	21-08-2001 16:55									#52
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I only should like to play a bigger map if:
1 it is possible to make more cue's to "micromanage" the game and;
2 if (scouting !!) units (land and water) can move more quickly around the globe.
Otherwise things will get "a little" too tedious .

	21-08-2001 18:12									#53
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quote: Turkey is in Europe man don't you know that they are applying to the EU right now and yes i originally forgot Slovenia and Slovakia but then placed them in, in the next post so I really didn't forget.

I've been in Turkey maybe a dozen of times and even though about ten percent of Turkey lies in Europe I can assure you that as far as culture and social issues are concerned Turkey is definitely not Europe.

Note: Before people accuse me of being anti-Turkish I must also remark that I've never come across more hospitable people than the Turkish.

	21-08-2001 21:58									#54
	About the number of countries in Europe, Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

We should concentrate in the defination of "nation" or "country". What makes a country?
1) A people with
a) same standard language
b) cultural, ethnical, genetic? roots
c) state institutions, money, foreign policy, army etc
With these terms we can surely add the maltese order in Rome and I remember reading about this tiny man-made island in the English channel that had passports, money, stamps etc

	21-08-2001 22:10									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Mannamagnus I can assure you that as far as culture and social issues are concerned Turkey is definitely not Europe.

I've been to Turkey as well and I agree that the culture is far from european but officially though, Turkey is european.

	21-08-2001 23:38									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger What's the special unit for the "Ye Ole Apolyton Guys?"

Webmaster. It'll probably work similiarly to some of the special units in CtP.

	22-08-2001 00:38									#57
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quote: Originally posted by splangy guys, didn't you hear?? you can have 16 civs on a map, jeff said it in the APOLITON interveiw! so if your the english you will meet the french germans etc.. real early , I honestly cant wait!!

He said that could be modified USAING THE EDITOR TOOLS, so, IS TRUE. THE GAME ALLOW 16 TRIBES AT THE SAME TIME!!!

	22-08-2001 04:25									#58
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quote: Originally posted by UberKruX ... russia might have some very cold spots, the kind of places where you'd perfrer colonies over cities....

Right-on-the-button, ther're called gulags, you know...

	22-08-2001 05:34									#59
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Regarding the 6 x maximum map size in CIV3, does anyone have a good idea as to the size of the city grid in CIV3? I have studied screenshots from the CIV3 site and it seems that the city grid is the same size, but with the culture borders being quite large it is possible that the grid could be larger. A 6 x map isn't so daunting if the cities are larger in CTP/CTP2 style.

	22-08-2001 06:04									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Wille I've been to Turkey as well and I agree that the culture is far from European but officially though, Turkey is European.

Sorry guys Turkey is in Asia. It has always been in Asia.
The very small part in Europe is only about 2 or 3%, look at a map. Turkey northern border and the Sea of Marmara separates Asia and Europe. Turkey border Iran, Iraq, Syria are they in Europe? They also border Armenia, Georgia, Bulgaria, and one more country, can anyone ans that question? A friend of mine was station (US Army) in Iran in the sixty. He has been to Turkey and Iraq and also told me the people of Turkey were great people. Also another 2 couple (Col. and Major General Retired USAF) (friend of ours) tour Turkey about 3 year ago during Christmas and said they had great time in Turkey.
Ref: Pictorial Atlas of the World by Ottenheimer