23-08-2001 21:05									#31
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If a humble prince can speak to a king in name of another , I would suggest that nothing was really pathetic with Mad Viking post.

Considering recent pressure against Yin on the forum, where lot of people start to diminish his early efforts for a better Civ III, just because his recent wave of doubtiful posts and (may be) delusion, I think it would be fair to understand that Yin can overreact a bit.

More in general, I feel how difficult is to spend two years of enthusiasm around a game: time pass, some of the best people leave the forum, some of the new (of course) can't appreciate why isn't always all "perfect and well" with Firaxis announce...

Is like some work projects, where you can't see the moment you can put an end and take some rest, but you still feel like you can do something "last minute" task to improve the final result (or simply save the boat ).

It's not still time to print the final report, but I know how urging is the temptation to polish and show the shiny (tin) box, while the dust and dirty must go under the carpet.

Into one of my post above I whispered that List and EC3 hasn't been enough, not because they where less than a greater effort (one of the best of the genre, if not really the only great example of fan interaction with developers).
In fact, I always underlyned it should be a source of more feedback and results. If not for the "conservative sequel design" planned decision, I'm sure many more ideas will have fit in.

So far that is the great pity with Civ III opportunity, IMHO. But it is not fault of Yin, MarkG, Korn, Raingoon, DanQ, etc. etc., of course.

	23-08-2001 21:30									#32
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Adm.Naismith: I must admit, some of your posts have been darn funny! Thanks for understanding my neurotic behavior.

Mad Monk: I can see now that you weren't trying to troll. Don't get me wrong...Korn and the essential list were awesome, and I'm sure they made a difference. And I don't want you to think in anyway that I'm saying: "Hey, don't thank those guys." In fact, it's great that somebody has stepped up and tried to give thanks like that. It IS appreciated.

It's just that all this started over 2 years ago, and there is a lot of history involved. I think that the 500 page document (have you read it...seen its layout?) was PERFECT for its time so early in Civ3's development. It was a massive brain storming session. In the same way, I think the essential list was PERFECT for ITS time when some crucial decisions had to be made about this or that game element.

So I disagree with you that The List was filed. You are wrong about that. Now, if we had sent it in a few months later, you might have been right. I agree with you, though, that the essential list was wonderul and that its leaders and participants deserve praise.

	23-08-2001 22:59									#33
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Adm.Naismith- thanks

Yin- thanks

I came on board just after the big list, and did view it on line, and took part in EC3 threads.

I have not been around much lately, and am unfamiliar with the details of your situation- except I recall you being criticized for being negative about Civ3.

The BIG LIST was not only the precursor to EC3, but also its validation. A one page report is easy to discount. A one page distillation from a group that previosly gave you 500 page tome would really be tough to ignore.

*group hug*

	23-08-2001 23:01									#34
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quote: Sorry, no. As far as I understand Jeff mentioned a simultaneous turn movement (kind of RTS, stepped by turns when you end your units movement points). I guess that because of others posts mentioning they hidden this system in Civ II multiplayer, too.

quote: The way I thought he was discussing it was the SMAC way. Where both players in MP move at the same time. I see the way your talking about is how Stars used to do it and apparently the way MOO3 is going to do it. Interesting concept, but I still believe that they have incorporated a way of Simultaneous turns, just not the one you summarized.

tniem, that kind of misses the point, since what is being discussed is the number of proposed changes from the lists that have been adopted in Civ3. Nobody is disputing the fact that some kind of RTS simultaneous turns is 'in' - what Adm. Naismith said is that the simultaneous turns proposal from EC3 is 'out.'

	24-08-2001 04:32									#35
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Eh, eh, Hi ChrisShaffer!

What a pity our little EC3 crusade for Simultaneous Turn Execution has been a failure, on Civ III MP too...

The only game still promising it AFAIK seems to be STARS! Supernova genesis (now in beta). Let's see if it will prove the concept is the way to go to save TBS from RTS dominance

	24-08-2001 04:44									#36
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quote: Originally posted by yin26 Adm.Naismith: I must admit, some of your posts have been darn funny! Thanks for understanding my neurotic behavior.

I'm happy to amuse someone, at least It will help me to find a new job, if I'll be fired because too much time lI lost with my mind wandering around Civ III and this forum

P.S. I'm really proud of the post around Civ III as greatest Internet hoax ever.
I'm still worried to find it printed on a paper, inside the Civ III Milk the Happy Cow Tin Box Special Edition I'll probably end to buy

On the other side the vaucher to get the real game, and a photo of the Firaxis team with a "we gotcha you!" sign