02-01-2001 23:57									#61
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debeest,
In one book it says cities on same continents connected by roads the trade route is increased by 50%. It says this applies both to the IC&SB and to the resulting route. To take a stab at your question if this is true, then your cities even after the 50% factored in was not enough to change the trade route value be a full number so you could see it. Make them larger and see if you see a differance then.

Also from the single player days when some games I played were strictly to see what the largest IC&SB was, it seemed consistant, and is confirmed in this book too that it and the resulting route are partly benifited by if the comodity is demanded by the city you want the trade route with AND if the city you sent the caravan FROM also demands a comodity from the first city. So if both cities demand an item from each other at the same time, it is bigger than if only one of the cities does. Remember it is a TWO WAY trade venture simbolized by the TWO TRADE ARROWS and two named items in the efinished trade route. The book says this applies to the resulting route as well but maybe I misunderstand it.

quote: Originally posted by debeest on 10-04-2000 12:27 AM Another note: I recently completed a road between my city and the city I'd traded with (no airports), yet there was no change in trade value. Moreover, in the same game, I completed trade routes to three different cities with different trade, distance, etc., yet the trade values were all the same. This proves to me that the Scrolls of Wisdom formula is false (just as a single white raven disproves the claim that all ravens are black).

	10-02-2001 00:56									#62
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William Keenan, are you still around? I am interested in your final findings so that I can implement them correctly in Freeciv.

One thing I am confused about is: do the Transport/Superhighway Modifiers apply to the one time Tarde Payoff as well as the Trade Revenue? Conversely, does the 1/3 reduction by the discovery of Railrod/Flight apply to the Trade Revenue as well as the Trade Payoff? Also, does the 100% modifier for being on different continents apply to them both, only one of them and which one, or neither?

Your help will be greatly appreciated.

[This message has been edited by Jing (edited February 09, 2001).]

	12-08-2001 18:25									#63
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quote: Originally posted by William Keenan Tonic, don't fall into the same pitfall that Robert Lancaster did in his research. That pit fall is to assume that a particular component (such as the cities being connected by roads) is not part of the formula just because in one particular test it made no difference to the outcome. The trade formula is allot more complex then it seems. There are conditions when things like the cities being connected by roads factor into the formula and other times when they do not. For example, when calculating the cash/science payoff 50% is added to the total if both cities are connected by roads but only if they do not both have airports. Similarly, if a cash/science payoff exceeds 210 gold a different formula is used to calculate it's value then for payoffs below 210.

William, could you be more precise?
Do you know that formula?

	12-08-2001 20:25									#64
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Hi Guys,

The reason for my lack of interjection on the Trade topic is because I lost my extensive notes on the topic. A virus had infected my computer. I copied all my data before I nuked the machine, but forgot a subdirectory in my civ2 directory that contained all my trade notes.

I have considered recreating it but it was hundreds of hours of research to do in the first place and I don't don't have the kind of time I used to.

	12-08-2001 22:28									#65
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remember one key thing about trade routes.... its not just about connecting road and rail...... between cities there is an optimal path...... without connection this way you don't receive the bonus IIRC of connected cities.....

finding the optimal path is the key....its the shortest route between cities.... but you would be surprised exactly how this works.... i know i have been many a time....always roading the wrong tile and having to road all over again

	23-11-2001 19:09									#66
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some months ago I tested the ongoing bonus of trade routes (arrows). There are some differences to the expected results.

road/railroad bonuses are 1/3 resp. 2/3
this bonuses are lost if the distance between home and destination city is more than 22 or 23 tiles.
This bonuses are given if the optimal path of the goto command between home and destination city has roads/railroads (only tiles within cityradius will be considered). Enemy units on this tiles cancels bonuses. No improvement has an direct effect on tradearrows.

Same system is used for reducing corruption/waste between capital and a city.

Problem zero-meridian no road or railroad-bonuses are collected, even if the distance between the cities is lower than 22/23 Tiles. (one city left other city right to the meridian).

22/23 tiles is the same distance the goto command is working right


Hope that you understand my bad english.

See this thread in german.
http://civ2-forum.gamigo.de/showthread.php?threadid=839
Post from 3rd August 2001

Last edited by Thoddy on 27-11-2001 at 20:15

	26-11-2001 21:10									#67
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Awwww..... BuilderR thread.

	03-12-2001 10:40									#68
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[QUOTE] Originally posted by debeest

I've been playing OCC lately and watching my science extremely closely (counting every beaker I get, and generally wasting only about half a dozen beakers per civ advance even when generating hundreds of beakers per turn)...

It's been my observation that beakers get carried over, and so beakers are never "lost." Am I wrong?

	03-12-2001 11:57									#69
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quote: Originally posted by Spartan_RawB [QUOTE] Originally posted by debeest It's been my observation that beakers get carried over, and so beakers are never "lost." Am I wrong?

yes.
sample:
Beakers vor next tech-1000
current stored beakers-900
city produces 200 beakers per turn

only 100 beakers needed to complete tech. The abundant beakers (from this city)are wasted.

But this question is off topic. Look for a better thread.

	12-12-2001 02:30									#70
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

To clarify, Spartan:

Each city contributes its beakers to the total, one by one, starting with the newest city and working through to the oldest. At some point, some city contributes beakers that complete the tech. All beakers from that city, beyond the amount that were needed to complete the tech at that point, are wasted. All beakers from older cities then accumulate toward the next tech.

In some situations, this is of negligible consequence. However, in OCC, there's only one city to contribute beakers. If your lone city is generating 600 science per turn, as is likely at some point in the game, then you want to make sure that you don't leave your beaker-count needing just a few more beakers, because then you'll waste hundreds of beakers.

	16-12-2001 19:55									#71
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Let's then consider a hypothetical scenario.

Imagine that research required for next tech is 600 beakers. I deliver 1st caravan that delivers 600 beakers exactly. If I deliver another caravan that generates another 600 science/gold, then I basically lose 600 beakers. Correct?

So the the only way to get 2 techs a turn is to: 1) Deliver a caravan to max research threshold, and 2) Have your cities produce enough beakers to get the next advance in one turn.

How interesting.

	17-12-2001 02:51									#72
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Or build Darwins.

	17-12-2001 18:36									#73
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quote: Originally posted by Spartan_RawB Let's then consider a hypothetical scenario. Imagine that research required for next tech is 600 beakers. I deliver 1st caravan that delivers 600 beakers exactly. If I deliver another caravan that generates another 600 science/gold, then I basically lose 600 beakers. Correct?

I think, it's not fully correct.
If the caravan delivers 600 gold/beakers to a tech project of 600 beakers only about 450 beakers are stored into the current tech project. It seems only 75% of the possible beakers coming from caravan(s) for the current project are stored within 1 turn.
(this is not correct)

added: beakers from carawan are stored until the required number.

	23-05-2002 14:05									#74
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There has been much speculation on these boards on the subject of a trade beadker bonus cap - the previous suggestion IIRC being that no caravan can give a beaker bonus greater than 2/3 of the required beakers for the next advance - certainly thoddy your simplistic argument above (if I have understood it correctly) is wrong as by delivering several caravans in a single turn it is possible to (visibly) fill the science bar - but impossible to actually trigger a tech advance.

SG[1]

	24-05-2002 18:36									#75
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Yes you can fill the science bar. I experimented and turned off all science except for one beaker to test it it was truely full. The one beaker did indeed trigger the completion of research for that tech after filling it with caravans.

RAH

	24-05-2002 19:22									#76
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Thanks for that Rah - I had long believed this to be the case, but never actually verified it...

SG[1]