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What affects the profit I get from trade routes.
And how EXACTLY it affects.
Tnx
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patriot
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When we are talking about trade and expansion going hand in hand, can anyone elaborate on a balance between them? Maybe a fictional timeline...like building 1 caravan, then settler, then 2nd caravan, ...
Any ideas? How many cities does everyone typically have by the time they have their first caravan built?
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Jim W
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Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada
Sep 1999
time: 05:12
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quote:
Originally posted by William Keenan on 07-09-2000 08:17 PM
I have been working on the formula for trade lately, in preparation for a tip on the topic.
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Various people have posted formulae for trade benefits, most of which cause my eyes to cross and my brain to scream "General Protection Fault!"
(Though I've never considered it a fault to protect my Generals. But that's beside the point.)
However, I go along on my nice non-mathematical way, trying to get stuff to (a) the foreign city that requested it, (b) some foreign city in the same country as the requesting city, (c) some other foreign city, (d) one of my own cities that has requested the item, or (d) one of my own cities that I think might appreciate it.
I'm not one of the super-greats of the Civ-2 World, and I think I may have graduated from the rank of super-loser, but I agree with all those who say Trade is Very Important Stuff.
At the very simplest, think of it like this: Trade brings in more cash to be spent on all those neat gew-gaws like Riflemen, Heavy Armour, and First Class seats on the Alpha Centauri Flight.
Jim W
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William Keenan
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New Jersey, USA, Earth, Sol, Milky Way
Sep 1999
time: 00:12
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quote:
Perhaps the science-bonus component could also be included in your analysis, WK?
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I'm currently working on that part of the formula. It is very complex. There are actually two formulas an no less than sixteen variables. I'm not altogether sure that I can crack this one.
Normally I don't post partial findings, but this part of the formula is very interesting.
Cargo Modifier
x100% Any cargo not in demand
x200% Hides, Wool, Beads, Salt, Copper, or Dye in demand
x250% Cloth, Coal, Wine, Silver in demand
x300% Silk, Spice, Gems, Gold in demand
x350% Oil in demand
x400% Uranium in demand
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debeest
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Hey! I was just about to post my observation that the widely accepted formula for trade payoffs was wrong, and here's somebody already working on the problem. Is this the best website in the world, or what? Thanks, Mr. Keenan! Keep us informed.
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tonic
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Melbourne, Australia
Jun 2000
time: 05:12
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I have done a quick run for the one-off trade bonus with freight commodity demanded as variable and have come up with the following results. It appears there are 4 broad groups. So Campo may not be that far off:
Factor of 1:
Hides, Dye, Copper...
Factor of 1.25:
Cloth, Wine, Coal, Silver
Factor of 1.5:
Silk, Gold, Spice, Gems
Factor of 1.75: Oil
Factor of 2: Uranium
The results are independent of distance between the two cities and the amout of existing trade. I find the factors given by Lancaster a bit hard to follow. What the factors I use here imply is that if you get 100 gold bonus with Dye, you would get 125 gold with Wine, 150 gold with Gems and so on (all demanded). I note too that Coal is not in the Silver-Cloth-Wine group of Lancaster's.
Also to confirm that
1. For UNdemanded commodities there is no difference in both the bonus and the trade.
2. The trade generated by the established route seems independent of the commodity whether demanded or not.
3. The type of transport link (no roads, roads, or railroad) between the two cities has no effect on either bonus or trade ie the Lancaster formula is awry on this factor as well (This link factor had previous been pointed out in a thread in the archives).
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geofelt
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Neptune Beach,Florida,USA
Jan 1970
time: 00:12
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In a recent game, I was disappointed to lose colossus to the chinese. As it turned out, the city was on a nearby continent. I established a city on that continent, but did not capture the colossus city, instead, I sent caravans from most of my cities to that one location and got an incredible amount of bonuses and continuing trade.
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Novi Nomad
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Novi, MI, 48377
Jun 2000
time: 05:12
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Has anyone else had a trade route disappear? I established a route in the early portion of a game, and was getting something like +3 trade arrows for it. When I was doing something in that city later in the game, the commidity was still used up, but the +3 trade arrows were no longer there...
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Novi Nomad
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Novi, MI, 48377
Jun 2000
time: 05:12
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D'oh! Didn't think about that. I guess that might explain the disappearing arrows...
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SCG
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of less than all that I see
Jun 2000
time: 00:12
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well, there certainly are some odd occurances with trade routes. The one I'm most puzzled about is under what conditions does the trade route itself roughly double. (ie instead of getting 8 trade arrows like every other city nearby, you get 16 arrows in city info). I used to think it had to do with proximity to the city you were trading with, but I've had too many examples to the contrary. And I'll try and see if there is any corrilation between the road/railroad bonus and the increased trade arrows.
Edit: I should point out that _all_ of my cities are connected by railroad, and I built a railroad to the doorstep of the capitol of a civ i reduced to 1 city. As a test, I took a saved game and pillaged first the railroad and then _all_ roads surrounding the city and there was no change in the cost in the same caravan in each reload. Also, I should add that a majority of the cities with doubled trade routes arrows are within 20 or so tiles of the trade city, but there are exceptions to that. And it doesn't seem to be related to which civ founded the city either.
------------------
April Cantor: Sire, in order to expand further we must first gain favor of the King
SCG: darn, I've never really got the hang of that tribute thing, guess it will be a long time until i make prince
*goes off and starts gifting gold and techs*
[This message has been edited by SCG (edited July 27, 2000).]
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Matthew
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Manhattan, Kansas . USA
Jan 1970
time: 05:12
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Fergus:
Often as soon as you establish a trade route with that wool caravan another commodity will become availible. Even if it isn't immediate, it's likely that a commodity will change faster once it has been used up. I've even noticed that using a food caravan from a city to build a wonder can change commodities. So if you really hate wool, try using a caravan or 2 from that city to help build a wonder.
What really sucks is in the endgame, you are trying to get to AC ASAP, and you have 4 or 5 enourmous cities supplying oil, you gave every civ in the world the Automobile as soon as you got it, yet none of them ever demand oil, and all your cities are justtoo darn close to make self trade all that lucrative.
I try to build roads to facilitate trade also. They are generally made of Magellan boosted boats. It's nice to know that the commodity in demand in the forign city on a continent half way around the world will not change before your caravan gets there because it will get there on the same turn it is built.
[This message has been edited by Matthew (edited July 27, 2000).]
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04-07-2000 23:37
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