12-06-2000 07:46									#1
	Anyone ever get the "go to" function to work properly? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

What did you use it for?

I gave up on it pretty early.

	12-06-2000 08:05									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I use it, but only to go from one end of the screen to the other, on standard zoom. Saves a lot of time in scenarios like Red Front.

	12-06-2000 08:44									#3
	Remove this text

yes if you are travelling in a straight path.. the goto is fine... however if it needs to think on how to get there.... well it goes over mountains instead of taking roads, or goes under a lake a goes back and forth.... etc..... use it only in straight lines of command for best results

	12-06-2000 16:10									#4
	Tired of ads?

NEVER EVER use the go to command if the fastest route crosses the East/West 0 map coordinate. The unit will move in the opposite direction

	13-06-2000 09:10									#5
	Suffering from ads?

I use it when I'm in no particular hurry. If I'm launching an attack in 10 turns and have a unit about five turns away, I'll let it take six with goto and save myself the hassle. I never have the shocking navigation problems mentioned above though(except Ming's), that is to say I never suffer in the way War4ever describes

	13-06-2000 09:12									#6
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Note that the Go To Command, while still not perfect, is much better in TOT.

	12-06-2000 22:35									#7
	Put an end to popups!

After a while, you'll get to know which routes in a particular game the computer knows. I use several of these as 'subroutes' with a goto-order. You can't move all your units manually all the time, especially after a good railroad network has been laid down.

------------------
Ceterum censeo Romanem esse delendam.

	13-06-2000 00:39									#8
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I think it is important to start units out manually. It seems to me that when you get them moving on roads/railroads, they keep to them, but they may start on a more direct route cross-country if not.

Also, it seems that the computer remembers routes. Once established for a unit (say, freight) to move between 2 cities, it always seems to repeat the route without problems.

One warning, though. I *never* move naval units "goto". They seem to have a bizarre notion of efficient routes. Maybe that is Ming's 0 coordinate problem. Land units are much more trustworthy than naval units.

A related question. Naval units *always* move out of straight path (though with no loss in efficiency) and they *usually* seem to shy away from unexplored waters if not controlled square by square. Is that just me or does it seem that way to others, too?

	13-06-2000 18:31									#9
	Put an end to popups!

If I run into a problem with go to commands, I may just have an settler/engineer add a road or rail to the point where they are getting screwed up. Later in the game, it is just to much of a pain to move caravans/freights manually within your own empire

	13-06-2000 19:25									#10
	Inflate your Upload Space

A *long* time ago, I theorized that two cities are considered "connected by road/rail" if a unit will stay on path when doing a goto between the cities. So I'm with Ming all the way on this one - fill in the funny spots with a road, and you'll benefit overall.

I use the goto command a lot in single player, where I tend to have huge armies. It saves tons of time, and once you learn the paths on your particular map, your units won't go astray. Sea and air units are best controlled manually, as other people mentioned.

	14-06-2000 10:42									#12
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I've found that the more complicated the route, the better the computer does at following it via goto. For example, a route going from one island to another by way of a railroad through the antarctic does much better than a route from one city to another nearby city with a straight railroad connecting the two.

	14-06-2000 12:36									#13
	Got spare money?

i WANT IN.

Because I made much of the goto in freeciv.
*shameless plug* And to my knowledge it _always_ works perfect.
-always finds the path with the smallest cost.
-it work fine where the map wraps in the x axis
-it never goes into loops
-when using airplanes the planes will stop at ways points to refuel, and never crash (MUCH easier than moving them yourself). btw, airplanes don't automatically loose all their movement when moved into a city

Actually making I have learned enough to see what they must have done wrong in civ 2, and it isn't pretty
[This message has been edited by Thue (edited June 14, 2000).]

	14-06-2000 16:54									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

No, it isn't pretty. The designers saw the need for a goto command, and then didn't follow through with it. The changes you say you put in Free Civ actually address the real reasons for having goto commands.
Hopefully they will provide a better system for CivIII.

One question about Freeciv... Do you have a "patrol" command? One where you can tell ships or planes to patrol a specific area every turn looking for enemy units. A command like that would really speed up play in the modern era.

	14-06-2000 17:05									#15
	Put an end to popups!

I gave up on it years ago, but thought i'd give it a go just for old times sake recently!!!

i was fighting a war on 2 fronts, the celts in the east and the spanish on my western coast! I smashed the celts no problem with a far supperior force but was struggling against the spanish, so i sent my victorious army from the east to the west!!!

Now the path was fully roaded, about 24 squares in all, now for my army of horses, elephants and knights, this should've taken 4 to 5 turns depending on time to get on to the roads!!! but NO!!! the stupid computer sent them across the mountians, around MASSIVE inland lakes, the majority of my force arived after about 7 turns, after i abandoned the goto command and sent them by hand along the road!! by which time i'd lost 2 cities?!?!?!

And finally after about 27 turns the lone horseman who escaped my control arrived!!!! the route was only 24 squares which ever way you looked at it?!?! so how he took 27, i'll never know?!?!?!?!?
[This message has been edited by Oldman (edited June 14, 2000).]

	14-06-2000 17:28									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I'll usually test the route a unit will take between two cities with a worthless unit first. (but I don't even bother if it crosses the 0 point on the map)

I then watch to see just how stupid the unit is, and then send engineers to "fix" the problem. After that, I deem it safe and will use it. This is good for MP games when you don't have the option to reset

	14-06-2000 20:31									#18
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I appreciate the offer, but you have to get me to conver to linux first... and it will be a cold day in **** before my wife makes that addition to our home network. She is a computer consultant, and until she sees she can make money by learning it... she won't
She has more than enough business now with microsoft... sigh...

	14-06-2000 20:50									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

How hard is it?
1) buy mandrake 7.1
2) put CDROM in drive
3) click standard install, with automatical resizeing of windows partition
4) wait
5) play freeciv, it comes included

If you can use a mouse and a keyboard you should be capable of doing that.
[This message has been edited by Thue (edited June 14, 2000).]

	14-06-2000 20:51									#20
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

I know this is not the forum for debating OT, but I refuse to GoTo ( ) to the OT Forum. Since Ming brought it up, this is just my reaction to Thue, who seems to be popping up more frequently in these parts. Folks like him seem to be bent on developing stuff in Linux (like FreeCiv) instead of producing a product that we can play. After 10 years of being on the Mac, I switched to Windows in 1995, just so I can have more games to play. So take off your red hat and give me something that I and many others can play.

	14-06-2000 20:56									#21
	Suffering from ads?

Thue... you haven't met my wife.

She controls the network and all 5 PC's in our house... she rules with an iron fist!
She sees linux as a threat to her income.
It will indeed be a cold day in **** before she would let me load Linux on my machine at home. If you are married, you will know what I'm talking about. It's not worth the fight I would get into by suggesting it

	15-06-2000 09:04									#22
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Ahh, what comes first, the chicken or the egg. The users or the games? In this case the game has arrived, and is waiting for the users (although being bundeled with mayor distributions like mandrake I would think we had quite a few users).

It just doesn't inspire to produce free software that only fortifies M$ position. And I would have to buy windows and the windows development tools to do so.

	15-06-2000 09:20									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Ming: hmm, it isn't my problem. Let us see how many musthave-features and bugfixed we can add before you think it is enough to take the figth with your wife.
5 PC's with windows in one house - she must do nothing but run between them and to reboot them

edit: and no, I am not married; I am only a 21 year old student!
[This message has been edited by Thue (edited June 14, 2000).]

	14-06-2000 22:04									#24
	Suffering from ads?

Ok, this is pretty funny, and related to the subtopic we seem to be stuck on - and since I don't want to go to OT(like Steve) - i'm spending too much time in just general and strategy atm) I'll post this and let Ming et all decide if it deserves some other location

I found this online:

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Note: #0731 From: Ilovane Time: Tue Jun 13 23:24:27 2000
Area: General To: all
Subj: If operating systems ran airlines...
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
UNIX Airways: Everyone brings one piece of the plane with them to the
airport. They all go out on the runway and put the plane together piece by
piece, arguing non-stop about what kind of airplane they are supposed to be
building.

Mac Airlines: All the airline personnel look and act exactly the same.
Every time you ask questions about details, you are gently but firmly told
that you don't need to know, you don't want to know, and everything will be
done for you without your ever having to know, so just shut up.

Windows Air: The terminal is pretty and colorful, with friendly stewards,
easy baggage check and boarding, and a smooth take-off. Ten minutes into
the flight, the airplane explodes with no warning whatsoever.

Windows NT Air: Just like Windows Air, but the tickets cost more, it uses
much bigger planes, and takes out all other aircraft in a 40-mile radius
when it explodes.

Linux Air: Disgruntled employees of all other OS airlines decide to start
their own. They build the planes, ticket counters, and pave the runways
themselves. They charge a small fee to cover the cost of printing tickets,
but you can also download and print tickets yourself. When you board the
plane, you are given a seat, four bolts, a wrench, and a copy of
Seat-HOWTO.html. Once settled, the fully adjustable seat is very
comfortable, the plane leaves and arrives on time and the in-flight meal is
delicious. You try to tell customers of other airlines about the great
trip, but all they can say is, "You had to do WHAT with the seat???"
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

	14-06-2000 23:10									#25
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

ROTFLMAO...
Carry on

------------------
Ming
CivII & Off-Topic Forum Moderator
Ming@Apolyton.net

	15-06-2000 10:24									#26
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Having used all the operating systems in question, I have only a two corrections:

1) Mac Airlines: Everything is done for you without you needing to know the details.

2) Windows NT Air: The flight usually lasts about 20 minutes, not 10.

Other than that, quite accurate and quite funny

	15-06-2000 15:16									#27
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

LOL!

Well, just to drag us back on topic ( ), I tend to use the Go To command a lot in the Mac MPG version and except for crossing the seam in the world, it usually works okay. Sometimes units seem to run off the road like they missed the turn and caused a traffic pile-up. I've never tried a "test drive" followed by repairing the route with an engineer; that sounds like a good idea. However, I've never noticed units taking a mountain or the wrong way around the inland sea route. The success of the Mac Go To may be attributed to the Brian Nesse who fixed (at least to a major degree) the bug in the first Mac patch! I remember that before Brian's patch the Go To NEVER worked the way I would expect. Having said that, I still never risk a Trireme on a Go To command! ;p

Now I'm waiting for Smash to comment...

------------------
Different is GOOD!

AOL IM--JacSamDad

	15-06-2000 17:00									#28
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

The patch for the mac seems to work better for the goto command then the windows patch... (how come this doesn't surprise me)

I will admit that the latest patch does make the goto command work better than it did...
(and this didn't surprise me either)
But it could still use some improvements
(and this really doesn't surprise me)

The test method really works well for me in MP. If a diplo moves off the road (and usually on to bad terrain), I'll just build a road there and see if that helps. I start making notes what cities it's safe to use the goto command to and from... and I will some times break a long trip up into two legs that I know work. Once you start building those caravans, it really speeds up your turn in MP... Plus, you don't forget which city the damn caravan is supposed to go to

	15-06-2000 17:06									#29
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Hmm; the freeciv goto still isn't perfect for triremes, though it is better. It has to be, as in freeciv the AI's triremes can actually sink, unlike the civ 2 AI's

	17-06-2000 03:00									#30
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I can understand nobody has made a really good GOTO for triremes - It is darn hard!