22-08-2001 02:59									#31
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

It is highly exceptional that I agree with Urban Ranger or Imran S. on any issue. Yet on CtP we agree completely. I think that settles this discussion.

I only played CtP once and was utterly bored, though I liked the slaver and some other ideas. And the lay-out was rather neo-fascist in my opinion. After my first CivII game I couldn't sleep at all!
CtP II I have never played when the Diplomat -one of the better posters on this Forum- had told me he was rather disappointed because of the passivity of the AI, so I never even tried it.

I think Civ III will not be what I had hoped it would bring -no Domestic Policies, no Rise and Fall- yet I will try it anyway.

	22-08-2001 04:57									#32
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: It is highly exceptional that I agree with Urban Ranger or Imran S. on any issue. Yet on CtP we agree completely. I think that settles this discussion.

Yep, discussion over .

	22-08-2001 08:30									#33
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Lord Magnus At least Civ3 won't have more bugs than an anthill.

quote: Originally posted by tniem Many of the features in CtP were really cool additions to the genre and it made the games fun to play. But there were just to many bugs. And in my opinion there was just to much of everything that was not balanced against each other.

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui LOL! HAHAHHAHAHAHAAH ROFLMAO! Comparing CtP (Crap to Play) to Civ3. That's funny. Civ3, even though it isn't even released yet. I bet the beta of Civ3 has less bugs than the final release of CtP .

You guys are all right. CTP2 was too buggy but you must play it mooded. Like Mr Pleasant said Activision launched a plataform and call it a game. And now i can say that it is amazing with greater and new features like Elite Units( When discovering an advance you have 1 out of 6 of getting a special cultural based unit), Wonder Units (Special unit you get after building a wonder) and many others features. It is worthy to see.

quote: Originally posted by connorkimbro Any game that need's to be hacked to death just to make it playable isn't worth my money.

Thats why i use a pirated CD.


PS: before start talking you guy should take a look in the CTP2 forum in the thread with this same game in wich we the CTP2 defenders already made our points.

	22-08-2001 08:35									#34
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by ADG Right now I have the Apolypton patch installed, but it seems like it only makes mnior changes.

You are right, Aplolyton pack just fixes the bugs. If you really want to see changes play craddle and MM2.

quote: Originally posted by rah I played CTP II. It had some real nice concepts that I really liked. But by the end of the second game, I was bored because the game and the AI sucked. But since I liked some of the concepts, I downloaded the mods and tried again. They helped but didn't help enough. So while I have great respect and appreciation for all those that contributed to the mods, the game, even moded, still sucked.

quote: Originally posted by S. Kroeze CtP II I have never played when the Diplomat -one of the better posters on this Forum- had told me he was rather disappointed because of the passivity of the AI, so I never even tried it.

You will never talk bad about a pasive AI after playing Craddle at impossible level. The AI had a huge improvment with the mods. give it a try again.

	22-08-2001 08:54									#35
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Pedrunn You will never talk bad about a pasive AI after playing Craddle at impossible level. The AI had a huge improvment with the mod give it a try again.

I have to agree with you. I still don't play CtP2 much because there are some fundamental parts of the interface and game design that I do not like. It absolutely without question provides a far superior challenge in single player than the crap Civ2/SMAC AI. The difference is that in CtP you can write a mod to eliminate abuses like the OCC but in Civ2 you only had very limited scope to customise. If Firaxis repeat their design strategy then many AI flaws built into the initial release will remain flaws five years later because they will not be fixable by anyone else.

	22-08-2001 09:10									#36
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

CtP doesn't even have the right to bear the name Civilization anymore, which I think is a relief since that game stunk more then a pile of flaming dog crap.

	22-08-2001 09:30									#37
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I remember when the time when CTP and Civilization III were considered the same game by Activision...I wonder if I can still find a newsgroup post where it was mentioned...here's one:
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=...9435,31&start=0

I also remember that time when Imran posted that nasty April fool's joke I could find a link to that too, if it was easily accessable.

	22-08-2001 10:31									#38
	Get a bigger avatar today!

I like the CTP serials and I like the Civ serials. Two difference games, IMHO to hard to compare. For me WesW mod is adding to the game, and I'm still playing it.

	22-08-2001 10:34									#39
	Remove this text

What April Fool joke was that, Will?

I just remember the last one about the Moderator stuff...

I can't believe Craptivision tried to pass on the lie that CtP was the official sequal to Civ2!!!! What a bunch of *******s!

	22-08-2001 11:00									#40
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I'm not to upset about CTP2 not bearing the Civ name - it's a different yet derivative game. Kind of like the fact that Marilyn Manson is completely derivative from KISS but the world is a much richer place for having them both. I've enjoyed CTP2 ever since MedMod and ApolPack came out. No doubt I'll enjoy Civ3 when it comes out. And oh yeah, I'm modfying stuff after I play the game straight a couple of times. I played around with Civ2 the moment I found out it could be modified. Even used LView Pro to convert the units.gif file from gif to bmp so I could manipulate the picture in paintshop.

As for Kimbro, the only thing I have to say is you know you'd pleasure an entire male correctional facility for a hacked version of civ2 that fixed AI diplomacy and strategy, so don't give me this crap about hacked games. If its fun, its fun. In fact, modders are the first people you'll go crying to if Civ3 has some balance issues. I hope Civ3 is well balanced and bug free, but I won't sweat it much if it has problems that can be fixed by modders. (Although I am vehemently opposed to the laziness and lack of QA in the software industry today, and such behavior will reflect poorly on Firaxis . . .).

	22-08-2001 11:07									#41
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I have heard of brand loyalty but what is being written in this thread is astonishing! Aren't any of you gents prepared to sample the wares of a non Sid Meyer game? (Not that Sid Meyer has anything much to do with civ3 anyway.)

I have played CTP almost as often as Civ2 and it is NOT that different. The interface leaves a good deal to be desired but it is a very enjoyable game to play if you give it a fair go. The new concepts such as public works and the combat model help make it a superior game to civ2 in almost all respects. The AI in CTP is better then that in civ2 as well. Certainly it doesn't cheat as much.

CTP2 on the other hand was a disaster. The AI is utterly passive. Even with the medmod it just sits there and does nothing. (Sorry WesW et al)

So how about it folks, leave out some of the vitriol and put your brains into gear before tapping away at that keyboard!

	22-08-2001 14:49									#42
	I dont know what the problem is... Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I like CTP2 much more than CivII. Maybe its because I use the german versions, and I dont know any major bugs in the german version of CTP2. Ok there had to be a patch. But the game is running smoothly and fine looking.

CTP2 is more realistic than Civ II. I dont know what you are all up to, but I dont think you'll get a free copy of Civ II for you "ass-licking" posts. Be honest!!

Civ is an ancient game thats stops in the modern age! with many colorful buttons and oh so funny units.

CTP2 was meant to be an improvement to them all. They really wanted to give us some good game to play. And my game is good to play. Even without any Mods and so, i can play it.

I havent played Civ II for almost 1,5 years and I dont miss it. I'm curious about Civ III but as my experience says, every computer game has a dead!!

	22-08-2001 16:20									#43
	Tired of ads?

It's a shame that Dr. Freud is no longer around, still I suggest you get your head examined Uffty.

	22-08-2001 16:31									#44
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Mannamagnus It's a shame that Dr. Freud is no longer around, still I suggest you get your head examined Uffty.

LOL! I concur, your Excellency!

	22-08-2001 16:32									#45
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by jerkwaterbox CtP doesn't even have the right to bear the name Civilization anymore, which I think is a relief since that game stunk more then a pile of flaming dog crap.

CTP tryed to bear the civ name. But I guess Firaxis threatened and they took it off from CTP2.

	22-08-2001 16:45									#46
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Pedrunn CTP tryed to bear the civ name. But I guess Firaxis threatened and they took it off from CTP2.

wrong

microprose and activision made a deal for one game to have the word "civilization". that was ctp1 whose name is still "Civilization: Call to Power"....

	22-08-2001 16:50									#47
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Thanks Markos i did not konw that

	22-08-2001 16:56									#48
	Re: I dont know what the problem is... Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by Uffty CTP2 was meant to be an improvement to them all. They really wanted to give us some good game to play. And my game is good to play. Even without any Mods and so, i can play it.

I really have to agree with Tiberius and Mannamagnus. The first time i played it went direct to the shelf and stayed there until i discovery the mods while checking the others forums when i was part of the civ3 community.
I cant imagine someone playing CTP2 unmodded and enjoying specially because of extremely passive AI.
Take a look at the mods. At least play the CTP2 Apolyton pack that is bug fixer.

	22-08-2001 17:13									#49
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by Mannamagnus It's a shame that Dr. Freud is no longer around, still I suggest you get your head examined Uffty.

Oh brother, insulting posters because they express a PREFERENCE????

I still remain unconvinced that CIV3 will be the groundbreaking game it's all hyped up to be. Granted, there are a lot of good features in it - but up to this point the only two that look to be a cut above are the implementation of culture and the need for goods to build units. Many of the 'so-called' additions are adoptions from the CTP series. (and yes, CTP uses a lot from civ2 - duh!!!) That is the nature of the game.

If you are a civ2 player who is looking forward to civ3, you better be concerned about the one issue that really matters - the AI. I genuinely hope that this issue will be resolved somewhat, but without resorting to a massive amouts of AI boosts and cheats, I do not believe it is possible at this time.

At least civ3 has improved the graphics - though the map still needs work.

I will say this much...I do think Activision rushed CTP2 out - some more work and the game would not needed to have been modded - though the only issue that was glaringly broken was the passive AI. All other issues were a matter of preference. If you do not like certain units, screens and so forth - repeat after me, boys and girls - ITS ONLY A PREFERENCE!!!

Yes, it needed to be modded. Comparing CTP2 unmodded with civ2? - its no contest, civ2 wins hands down. But the CTP2 Mods have done a great job in cleaning up the mess.

And buggy...I have the patch that they released and have not experienced an in-game crash yet.

I fully expect all of the Deity level civ2 players to have civ3 figured out within a few weeks. But other than a few who are genuinely concerned about AI issues, most will be praising civ3 to the heavens because of preference issues.

Those of you who have beaten the CTP2 Mods probably will not have too much problem with civ3 - though I doubt that you will be too critical of its shortcoming either.

	22-08-2001 17:19									#50
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

BTW, Markos, when can I get my Cradle Mod posted at Apolyton???

Been impatiently waiting...

I have it all zipped into one file on my site. Dan had said he would post it here. It needs to be redownloaded from my site since I talked to him a couple of months ago, since it has been adapted to Modswapper.

Check my thread in the CTP2 Mod section for address.

cradle_allfiles.zip is the one you need.

	22-08-2001 17:33									#51
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Oh brother, insulting posters because they express a PREFERENCE????

I don't think my remark was very insulting but he had it coming because of his own remark:

quote: I dont know what you are all up to, but I dont think you'll get a free copy of Civ II for you "ass-licking" posts.

So please read the messages in a forum before you start lecturing Hexagonian.

	22-08-2001 17:40									#52
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

His post was potentially offensive but was not targetted at any specific individual and it did spend more time listing reasons why he had a preference. Yours was purely a personal attack against a particular poster, making it just as much a violation of board etiquette.

	22-08-2001 17:54									#53
	Inflate your Upload Space

I guess you're probably right Grumbold. And if so I apologise. But still I think he needs to get his head examined.

	22-08-2001 18:24									#54
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

...well he did make the 'ass-licking' comment, which could be considered offensive to a whole group of people (civ2 supporters in this thread), so I guess the rebuttal comment could be justified.

Hey, I lectured with a wink though

Now back to the discussion.

	22-08-2001 19:13									#55
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Pedrunn You are right, Aplolyton pack just fixes the bugs. If you really want to see changes play craddle and MM2.

I will do that, but I (still) haven't finnished one single game since the installation of the Apolyton patch

	22-08-2001 23:18									#56
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Best civ game? Sid Meier's COLONIZATION!!! That game kicked ass! I don't want CTP2 or Civ3, I want Colonization 2!

	22-08-2001 23:25									#57
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Mark L Best civ game? Sid Meier's COLONIZATION!!! That game kicked ass! I don't want CTP2 or Civ3, I want Colonization 2!

*sigh* SID MIER DIDN'T CREATE CTP!!!

ps- Colonization sucked

	22-08-2001 23:39									#58
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: ps- Colonization sucked

Survey Says...X

Sorry, you hit a whammy.

Colonizaton did kick a$s and had a whole bunch of innovations and economic modelling that would be great additions to the civ series if they could be abstracted to a 6,000 year game as opposed to just a 300 year game.

	23-08-2001 00:19									#59
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Mannamagnus I don't think my remark was very insulting but he had it coming because of his own remark: So please read the messages in a forum before you start lecturing Hexagonian.

Mannamagnus, my half-german-dutch friend :-) that was not meant to be taken seriously. I hope yours not either. I consider us all here as a community and not as enemies, but I guess somehow, my nationality still brings a kind of hate into your soul. I'm sorry! Please take it as a joke! ANYTHING

Regards, Uffty

	23-08-2001 00:20									#60
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by SerapisIV Colonizaton did kick a$s...

Yes, it was a great game in its own right. I wouldnt mind a second comming one of these days.