21-08-2001 08:12									#1
	whats better, ctp or civ3? Suffering from ads?

were having a heated discusion about this in the ctp forums so i felt it was only fair to post it here, also becouse that thread has degenerated to me vs the entire ctp2 comunity, so im out numbered about 5 to 1 ( )

anyone who thinks its unfair to judge civ3 to ctp2 becouse civ3 isn't out yet, just base it off of your current feelingsabout civ3 and your feelings about ctp.

	21-08-2001 08:22									#2
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Well, seeing as CTP 1 and 2 were complete pieces of ****, I'll have to say civ3 is better. Sure, it's not even out yet, but a 3 three year old could do a better job of making a game than all those monkies at Activision combined. Seeing as it's Sid Mier making civ3, it's got to be a hell of a lot better!

	21-08-2001 08:27									#3
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I really hope civ3 will be better than ctp2

It can't be must worse, can it

	21-08-2001 08:33									#4
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At least Civ3 won't have more bugs than an anthill.

	21-08-2001 08:40									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Hmmm, a tough choice...

Civ 3 - With the person who made the original Civ
or
CTP - A cheap clone of someone else's ideas...

I know !! CIV 3!!

	21-08-2001 08:59									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Skanky Burns CTP - A cheap clone of someone else's ideas...

CTP had some good ideas and the gameplay for the most part was pretty good. I loved the space cities and Sci-Fi tech. But what probally pissed everyone off about CTP and CTP2 is that the bugs sometimes caused the game to crash and also the game was unbalanced in some areas ("the group of ragtag warriors took down my high tech/state of the art space figther, what a rip off" and "why do cities preform the best in forests and jungles?") and it really pissed me off that you can't have a settler join the cities population, it would of been very useful in building up those space cities. As many good ideas that CTP had, the bugs just killed it. And what probally put the final nail in the coffin is that instead of Crapvision patching CTP, they make CTP2 and release it within a year of CTP. Finish the job and don't just make another crappy game you bastards !!! At least Civ3 has it's good ideas and plus it works.

	21-08-2001 09:22									#7
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It would seem that I'm one of a slim minority here who enjoyed the CtP games. I personally believe that CtP 2 with the Apolyton patch is a better game than Civ 2. Granted Civ 2 is virtually eons old, so it's really not a fair comparison. To any of those who still doubt the CtP series, I have but two words for you: Dino Park.
Nuff said IMHO

	21-08-2001 09:28									#8
	Got spare money?

Gee, which do I prefer? A game I haven't seen, much less played yet, or one I have? What a dumb question.

Things that look promising about Civ3 is the resource system (always wondered how I could have an army full of tanks but no oil! Guess I can't now . . .)

CTP2 with either MedMod2 or the Apolyton pack will be the benchmark for Civ3 to match or excel - and that will be a tough job. Especially given that chariots with a 1 attack rating makes it appear that Civ3 might have balance issues equal to unmodified CTP2. But like CTP2, modders will no doubt correct any flaws in civ3 (which means pray to whatever Deity that Firaxis leaves as much of the game open to modification as possible.)

Yeah, Sid made the first civ game but doesn't mean he won't go stale. Sargon of Akkad may have run the first standing army, but doesn't mean he should be on the Joint Chiefs of Staff today.

	21-08-2001 09:53									#9
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I have a hard time judging a game that has yet to been released against a game that has already come out.

Many of the features in CtP were really cool additions to the genre and it made the games fun to play. But there were just to many bugs. And in my opinion there was just to much of everything that was not balanced against each other.

Now Civ III on the other hand also looks to have a ton of new additions that could be fun to play and mess around with. Sure it is the same old game, but heck I can buy another reincarnation of it for the eigth or ninth time. But then again, it could have tons of bugs. I hope not but well, who knows?

And so I think I will reserve judgement until October 20th or whatever.

	21-08-2001 10:31									#10
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quote: CTP2 with either MedMod2 or the Apolyton pack will be the benchmark for Civ3 to match or excel

Any game that need's to be hacked to death just to make it playable isn't worth my money.

Second, I think it's only fair to compare the actual published versions of games. Not hacked to death versions.

Third, even when it IS hacked to death, CTP2 is, at BEST. . playable. Civ2 is still better.

Thus, Civ2 is the benchmark, not CTP.

	21-08-2001 10:34									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I bought CtP in a store the moment I saw it. After installing the game I was totally flabbergasted by the interface. All the controls were strewn all over the place; it was a real effort to get anything done. It stayed on for a couple of days before I deinstalled the game and gave it away.

There are a large number of units and civ advances but Activision designed the thing completely wrong. First of all it had to be different for the sake of being different, this applies to wonders, units, and other aspects. Secondly a number of units totally unbalances the game, e.g. Slavers and Corp Branches. Thirdly I hardly needed to research the furtistic advances and units I won the few games I played before that, because of the aforementioned unbalancing units.

CtP 2 was worse. It was half-arsed and wasn't even finished.

	21-08-2001 10:34									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Mister Pleasant Yeah, Sid made the first civ game but doesn't mean he won't go stale. Sargon of Akkad may have run the first standing army, but doesn't mean he should be on the Joint Chiefs of Staff today.

Of course not. Sargon of Akkad hasnt been around for many years, and so wouldnt know the current military strategies, weapons, etc. A missile, whats that??

Sid, on the other hand, has been actively involved with games programming since the release of Civ. Stale has nothing to do with it IMHO.

This Civ is being built upon all the good features from civ 1/2 ctp 1/2 smac, and features from these games that detracted from the gaming experience have been cut out. The only way a game based upon Civ could be bad is if it is buggy and/or unbalanced.

	21-08-2001 10:37									#13
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I can't tell if I prefer Civ3 or CTP2, because I didn't play Civ3 yet. But I can answer to the following question:
"What's better: CTP2 or Civ2". My answer is: Civ2 !!!
Maybe CTP had some good ideas or cool additions, but missed the most important attributes: the fun, the simplicity and the "civ feeling" of Civ1 and 2.

	21-08-2001 10:38									#14
	Funny... Inflate your Upload Space

LOL! HAHAHHAHAHAHAAH ROFLMAO!

Comparing CtP (Crap to Play) to Civ3. That's funny. Civ3, even though it isn't even released yet. I bet the beta of Civ3 has less bugs than the final release of CtP .

	21-08-2001 12:07									#15
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Hey Kimbro, Skanky, and Tiberius:

The following rant has been censored due to flargantly obscene language and suggestions. Which is a shame given the thoroughly amusing content, involving mothers, cucumbers, leather, and activities that are illegal in both Texas and Utah

As for hacked game you know you would get on your knees and again, this rather amusing bit is censored for content if someone could hack Civ2 and fix some of the more agregious flaws. As for hacked to death, if you are too lazy to download some zip files and extract them to a folder you can use your imagination. So yeah, if the hacked version of a game is really good, then you count that version. It's all about the fun, right? My complaint with CTP2 was that Activision released a development platform and called it a game.

Tiberius, what the hell is the "civ feeling"? I get the feeling it is primarily caused by the box reading 'Sid Meier' as opposed to any actual gameplay.

Frankly, I think Civ3 could very well surpass CTP2+mods, and I've rarely been disappointed by a Meier game. But the fact is, I play CTP2 with mods and really enjoy it (I've even done some fine tuning on my own). And if Civ3 doesn't measure up, then its shelfware. All I'm saying is wait for the damn game to come out and shake it down before you compare with other stuff and kiss Sid's pale ass. And if you have not played CTP2 with the mods, then don't make the comparison. How the hell can you compare two games you haven't played? Answer - you can't. So have a nice cool glass of shut-the-hell-up.

	21-08-2001 13:51									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

There's no doubt that Civ3 at current state has less bugs and is much funnier than any ctp game will ever be. There's only one reason why I play ctp2 now, and it is, that civ2 doesn't work on my machine and I don't have civ1 to PC (only to my good ol' Amiga, which sadly doesn't work anymore). Right now I have the Apolypton patch installed, but it seems like it only makes mnior changes. But any game where the creators doesn't make the game to work, isn't worth buying...

Conclusion:

Civilization 3 is going to be the best Civ style game ever made, there's no doubt about that...I'm just going to it

	21-08-2001 16:29									#17
	Re: whats better, ctp or civ3? Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by splangy were having a heated discusion about this in the ctp forums so i felt it was only fair to post it here, also becouse that thread has degenerated to me vs the entire ctp2 comunity, so im out numbered about 5 to 1 ( ) anyone who thinks its unfair to judge civ3 to ctp2 becouse civ3 isn't out yet, just base it off of your current feelingsabout civ3 and your feelings about ctp.

Aaah gotta love those questions that need no answering!

	21-08-2001 16:37									#18
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Mister Pleasant Hey Kimbro, Skanky, and Tiberius: As for hacked to death, if you are too lazy to download some zip files and extract them to a folder you can use your imagination. So yeah, if the hacked version of a game is really good, then you count that version. It's all about the fun, right? My complaint with CTP2 was that Activision released a development platform and called it a game.

Isn't it sad that nowadays it is accepted that you sell a game with so much bugs in it? Sure, you can download a patch or 2, install several mods (made by people not working for that company). But if you buy a new computer and want to install it again. Then you have to install it, download the mods/patches again or copy the allready downloaded programs from your old computer to the new one and install it again. Then if you adjusted it yourself, tou must do it again now...

You get my point? Civ2 is still playable from the original CD. Maybe some minor bugs were in it, but not so that it is no fun playing in it.

Ctp2 was nice, but really not much fun. As said before, you have allready won, before you even get to the new advances....

My general opinion of ctp2 is

My opinion on how civ3 is going to look:

But my final judgement will come when I have played civ3.

	21-08-2001 16:43									#19
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LOL. Depending on your interpretation of the patching numbering scheme, Civ2 was all except flawless upon release.

The original updates ranged up to 1.42 and the add-on scenario packs incorporated further updates, not to mention the final MP edition (which I never had so I could be wrong there ).

Even Q3A has so far only gotten up to 1.29 or so.

And Civ2 was somewhat unplayable from the orig CD...do endless waves of destroyers against your CF sound familiar? Or fortified fighters in open terrain?

	21-08-2001 16:46									#20
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if only some people left a tiny possibility that there are people who are not morons and disagree with them, this thread would be a much better one....

	21-08-2001 17:01									#21
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I still play Civ2 after ... 5 or 6 years ? I can't even remember exactly how many years I played Civ, but certainly countless hours of joy and fun.

Ctp2? Until I still have some free space on my hard drive, I won't delete it, but otherwise...

What can be said more?

	21-08-2001 17:47									#22
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Even pong was/is more fun than CtP2! Lets move this thread to the silly questions forum.

	21-08-2001 18:18									#23
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Of the 3 civ style games i own (civ1 & 2, SMAC, CtP2) civ1 and 2 are the ones i play most, but i would play civ2 more if i could get the FW cd to work

To me civ1 is a better game to play than CtP2. MedMod2 is a huge improvement (and i'd like to thank WesW for his work) but i just don't find the game enjoyable. Craptivision just tried to make civ different, instead of better. Some interesting ideas but not playable at all.

On the bugs issue, i am not that worried about compatiablely bugs (with different systems and hardware) because it is not possible to check for every situation. But gameplay bugs should not be present when the game is released

CtP was a waste of money to me, which i could of spent on 2 albums or 3000 penny sweets. Damn them

	21-08-2001 21:20									#24
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Civ has definitely got the better interface but CtP/2 did manage to introduce some very good new ideas into the genre and boy did it need it after 8 years. Unfortunately the Craptivision suits bundled the game out the door incomplete. However the beauty is that the one thing they did get right was the SLIC code. This basically means that almost every part of the gameplay could be changed to suit the mod makers. CtP may be a less balanced game to play in multiplayer but as a form of one player entertainment I have grow to enjoy it more because of the variety of options.

Civ3 needs to surpass CtP's advanced features and customisability while retaining Civ's clean interface and playability.

	21-08-2001 21:31									#25
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CTP3!!

	22-08-2001 00:05									#26
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I played CTP II. It had some real nice concepts that I really liked. But by the end of the second game, I was bored because the game and the AI sucked. But since I liked some of the concepts, I downloaded the mods and tried again. They helped but didn't help enough. So while I have great respect and appreciation for all those that contributed to the mods, the game, even moded, still sucked.

CivIII better be better.

RAH

	22-08-2001 00:21									#27
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: As for hacked game you know you would get on your knees and again, this rather amusing bit is censored for content if someone could hack Civ2 and fix some of the more agregious flaws.

Blah blah blah HACKED TO DEATH blah blah blah STILL SUCKS ASS. NOT WORTH MY MONEY.

quote: As for hacked to death, if you are too lazy to download some zip files and extract them to a folder you can use your imagination.

I did that, dumbass.

quote: So yeah, if the hacked version of a game is really good, then you count that version.

Not in my opinion. That would be like saying civ2 sucks unless you change the rules.txt all around then it's good, so the game is good. Something along those lines. The customizeability included with a game should only serve to give the game different changes, different scenarios, whatever. It's not like. . [activision]uhh. . well. . here's the basic structure and graphics along with some customizing tools, could YOU guys please finish the game for us?[/activision]

quote: And if you have not played CTP2 with the mods, then don't make the comparison.

I have, by the way. I want those 10+ hours back, too, dammit.

quote: How the hell can you compare two games you haven't played?

I don't need to, dumbass, i only need comare ctp and civ2. Even that is a laughable comparison. Didn't you read that the FIRST time i wrote it?

Now, my last post wasn't insulting, i thought it was pretty reasonable. The only bad things i had to say were about the game ctp2, which in my opinion is over all a pretty ****ty game, hacked or not. But then you come out all anal on me. So you wanna act like as ass? I'll treat you like an ass. Learn to frickin read.

	22-08-2001 00:26									#28
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quote: Originally posted by ADG There's no doubt that Civ3 at current state has less bugs and is much funnier than any ctp game will ever be.

Yeah I sure love those games by Sid. They are just so funny.

	22-08-2001 00:55									#29
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The Activision-team never understood the danger of advertising CTP, as "CIVILIZATION - Call to power" (in that order, and with that emphasize) - then giving the unsuspecting customer a game that was fundamentally different in each and every possible way.

Not only that: They misinterpreted CTP's good sale-figures as "thumbs up" to their way of designing a Civ-game.

They simply never understood that most customers had bought CTP on impuls because of the expected CIVILIZATION promise - NOT because of the Call to power game-design. By the time CTP-2 was released, reality had finally caught up with these guys. And we all know the end of that story.

	22-08-2001 01:47									#30
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I play Civ2 over CTP 1 and 2 so Civ3 will definetly be better. I will admit that CTP had some good ideas, but most of those ideas were in SMAC so you can expect them to be in Civ3, too.