21-08-2001 09:38									#1
	Demo BEFORE Civ3's Release? Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Well, I'm still off the Civ3 boards 'indefinitely' but couldn't pass up posting this thread. I won't bicker about it or anything but am just posting it here to see what people think. Mainly I'm lurking unless I have something 'new' to contribute.

I ran across something Brian Reynolds said back in 1998 about how the SMAC demo released BEFORE the game was finished helped them a great deal. Now, let's just imagine there are gamers out there not convinced that Civ3 will be anything new or are concerned that player feedback has been, well, ignored or 'covertly listened to': Such a pre-release demo used for feedback purposes could prove immensely inspiring for those in the 'undecided' column.

This assumes, of course, the demo itself is inspiring...

quote: Then, it was time to release our demo. We had originally thought of the demo entirely as a marketing tool, but as soon as we released it we realized that it made perfect sense as part of our process: Here was a fairly polished, almost-final version of our game in the hands of the public, and as soon as the thing was out we started getting all sorts of feedback from it. Since the release version of Alpha Centauri was still in final testing, and our actual ship date was more than a month away, we had time to incorporate many suggestions from e-mail and Internet newsgroups into the retail version - much to the game's benefit. Thanks to the demo release, we could make improvements to the game's interface, add a couple of new features, and fix a few glitches found by demo users that had somehow slipped through our testing process. Most significantly, the design of the game itself was still "in play" during the demo process - we could improve some rules, fine-tune the game balance, and improve the AI, all based on feedback we got from the Internet. Even though we hadn't planned it that way, the demo release really proved to be a perfect addition to our design repertoire.

	21-08-2001 09:48									#2
	Suffering from ads?

That'd be prefect
Not only our Civ3 cravings will be satisfied till the final release, but if people get to know the (pre)game by playing it they can make better suggestions than if we only had screenshots to look at. I really hope that Firaxis does it for Civ3 for everyone's benefit.

	21-08-2001 11:21									#3
	Tired of ads?

yin, i love the way you managed to go on "exile" without really leaving


anyway, first of all, there WILL be a demo. firaxis always made demos for their games, and infogrames seems to be doing the same(check their site).

second, if the demo is done like smac, it will be very good for civ3. if you consider that the demo was out on december 25 and the game was released on february 9(that's more than 2 months between the two dates), guess how you can call the smac demo....

	21-08-2001 11:49									#4
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by MarkG yin, i love the way you managed to go on "exile" without really leaving

Oh well, also prisoner waiting on the death area of a prison are allowed to send some mail, aren't they? Or is Yin26 guilty of something worst of a first degree omicide? God/Sid annoying, perhaps?

quote: anyway, first of all, there WILL be a demo. firaxis always made demos for their games, and infogrames seems to be doing the same(check their site).

Reasonable guess, but not confirmed until now from Firaxis. Let's hope will not be another "window that never open"

quote: second, if the demo is done like smac, it will be very good for civ3. if you consider that the demo was out on december 25 and the game was released on february 9(that's more than 2 months between the two dates), guess how you can call the smac demo....

True, but considering how well it did for SMAC (still far from a proper open beta, AFAIK) someone should wonder why Firaxis didn't learn, improving from the experience...

Back to Yin question: yes, the demo will help me a lot into my game buy/not buy decision. Probably on a par with very good reviews I'll read from trusted players I know here, and a friend of mine (great analytic player, but really too lazy to join Apolyton community ).

Sometime a demo helped me to appreciate (and buy) games that I barely considered on first glance... In a burst of enthusiasm a great demo would give me decide to buy the expensive "Sid Meier's Cookies Box Civ III Limited Edition"

	21-08-2001 11:51									#5
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

A demo would be very cool. I wish they'd release the editors, too, so we can get cracking on making maps, scenarios, mods, etc...

	21-08-2001 12:00									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by El hidalgo I wish they'd release the editors, too, so we can get cracking on making maps, scenarios, mods, etc...

now that is an INCREDIBLY WONDERFULL idea. most of these tools are not going to be change in the last months. why not release them on the net to get the scenario makers started?

	21-08-2001 12:13									#7
	Suffering from ads?

Markos: I'm pretty much out of anything left to say about Civ3, but I felt that this pre-release demo idea really needed to be mentioned since it might well make a very helpful difference for Civ 3 and this community. Please still consider me in 'exile' on this forum otherwise...(and yes, anything to help the mod and AI people get cracking earlier would be outstanding).

	21-08-2001 13:28									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

To me it seems that if Firaxis wants to benefit and implement feedback from a pre-release demo, the demo should have to be made available now.

	21-08-2001 16:38									#9
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Hm I think a demo would indeed be a nice teaser and a good way to incorporate user feedback, but I haven't heard any mention of a possible demo release.

Perhaps Firaxis will settle for a inner-circle playtest this time around to save time. I might add that I'd rather have the game this year in a *slightly* less polished version than having to wait another year for *very* minor improvements.

	21-08-2001 17:32									#10
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by MarkG second, if the demo is done like smac, it will be very good for civ3. if you consider that the demo was out on december 25 and the game was released on february 9(that's more than 2 months between the two dates), guess how you can call the smac demo....

Let's see, if the game really is coming out in october, 2 months before that would be.... RIGHT NOW!!!

where is it??

	21-08-2001 17:45									#11
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Father Beast Let's see, if the game really is coming out in october, 2 months before that would be.... RIGHT NOW!!! where is it??

obviously it's not coming out in october

	21-08-2001 18:52									#12
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quote: obviously it's not coming out in october

Stop teasing Mark

	21-08-2001 20:22									#13
	Remove this text

I went to amazon.com to preorder civ and it said "this item will be released on october 17, 2001". Check it out for yourself at:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/A...0194388-8252600

	21-08-2001 20:24									#14
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

hmm if firaxcis does this theyd have to take a risk that people wouldnt like it, and might not buy the full game..

	21-08-2001 20:25									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

By the way: so far amazon is the cheapest site ive found for preordering civ3

	21-08-2001 20:27									#16
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Why spoil the real thing with some half-assed demo?

Demos typcially do nothing but ruin people's impression of a game. Esecially in a game like this, where limiting the amount you can do while still making it fun / informative is next to impossible.

	21-08-2001 21:02									#17
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Ahhhhhh!!!!
When's it coming out for Mac?!!!

If they do the demo well, it would help convince people to buy the game. I got SMAC based on the demo.

	21-08-2001 21:05									#18
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Admiral If they do the demo well, it would help convince people to buy the game. I got SMAC based on the demo.

This is Civilization 3 made by Sid Meier, they don't need to convince people. It's like making a star wars game.

	21-08-2001 21:16									#19
	Inflate your Upload Space

If the SMAC-demo was pre-released a couple weeks before the main-game, theres no reason why they shoudnt follow the same procedure with a pre-released Civ-3 demo. The benefit? Well, I think Brian Reynolds comments speaks for itself. My only added advice, is that they should zip it together with a limited/pre-released map-editor as well, so that many handmade maps is already available & downloadable by the time the big main game is officially released.

	21-08-2001 21:32									#20
	Got spare money?

The "Downloads" section of the Civ3.com homepage is the only section with room to grow, so maybe one of the items they plan to add is "Civ3 Demo". It would be nice.

	21-08-2001 21:55									#21
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Osweld Why spoil the real thing with some half-assed demo? Demos typcially do nothing but ruin people's impression of a game. Esecially in a game like this, where limiting the amount you can do while still making it fun / informative is next to impossible.

If it's a good game a demo wont spoil the real game, it might get undecisive players to buy it.

	21-08-2001 22:21									#22
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I KNEW yin couldn't stay away for long!

But yes, a Demo (even a half-assed one) would be great!

	22-08-2001 03:07									#23
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Wittlich I KNEW yin couldn't stay away for long!

Come on, you can see is not a true Yin post: it's his answering machine

quote: Hello, this is Yin26 answering machine speaking. I'm on exile right now, so please post a message or If you want to bash me for SimGolf suggestion, hit 1 If you want to comment about a classic Civ game hit 2 If you want to speak about the Civ III conservative sequel hit 2.5 If you want to take a brief from ossessive Civ comment, chose some SiX Thanks

Oh well, drinking too much caffeine is showing collateral effects for me as usual...

	22-08-2001 04:05									#24
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

rofl, funny stuff admiral

but wouldn't a demo, resulting in lots of user feedback and more features/enhancements getting put into the game at the last minute cause a plethora of bugs to find their way into the game? SMAC did have a fair few, if I remember correctly.....

....as usual, there's a downside and an upside to everything

	22-08-2001 04:20									#25
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Yeah, they'll release a demo (unless Infogrames seriously objects), they even released a separate demo for SMACX...

	22-08-2001 07:52									#26
	Put an end to popups!

Did you know that at 2am GMT this morning there are just 1313 hours left until Civ3 releases That's if it releases at 00:00 EST on the 17th of the 10th.

2001...

	22-08-2001 08:02									#27
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Darkknight Did you know that at 2am GMT this morning there are just 1313 hours left until Civ3 releases That's if it releases at 00:00 EST on the 17th of the 10th. 2001...

Somebody ought to make a count-down clock.

	22-08-2001 08:52									#28
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Is there anyway to find out when the demo will be released?

	22-08-2001 09:28									#29
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

There were some posts in the past to suggest that Yin was in fact Sid. While I didn't "bite" into that one, I am pondering the connection between Firaxis and Yin??????

Right before we hear any news from Firaxis, Yin comes in and starts ranting about this or that, and the next thing you know Firaxis is on top of it! Is Yin some kind of Fortune Teller? I think not! I do however feel he is closely connected to the inner workings of Firaxis somehow. Maybe Yin is Brian (just using a cover)? He could be any number of Firaxian insiders that frequent the forum.

I just think that too many coincidences have happened involving Yin to not consider what I have put forth. Those that have been following Yin's posts know what I'm refering to.

To Yin(and anyone else you claim to be):
I know you have the demo(if not the game itself), spare us the agony and SHARE!

	22-08-2001 14:02									#30
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Rommel393 I went to amazon.com to preorder civ and it said "this item will be released on october 17, 2001". Check it out for yourself at: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/A...0194388-8252600

they changed that to October 31